Wednesday, September 25, 2013

Vatican Council II and Islam : two interpretations

Vatican Council II indicates all Muslims need 'faith and baptism' for salvation and not only those who know about Jesus and the Church. Muslims do not have Catholic Faith and the baptism of water and they have Original Sin on their soul and commit mortal sins in this state.They are on the way to eternal death at the times of their physical death.
 
All Muslims in 2013 are on the way to Hell according to Vatican Council II (AG 7) and not just 'those who know about Jesus and the Church and yet do not enter'. We cannot name any such case of those who 'know'.De facto, in the present times there is no such known case.
 
In principle as a possibility known to God there could be a Muslim saved who is not a visible member of the Church. If there was such case in the present times,it would be irrelevant to the Vatican Council II teaching on all needing faith and baptism for salvation, since we personally could not know this person.
 
The ordinary means of salvation is the Catholic Church (Redemptoris Missio 55). It is not invincible ignorance. Also those in invincible ignorance who are saved and those who 'know' and who are not saved , would be judged only by Jesus.They would be known only to Jesus.They are not known to us either way. They are not known to us either way for them to be exceptions to all needing faith and baptism for salvation.(AG 7,LG 14,CCC 846 etc).So there are no exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II.
 
The confusion is caused by many who interpret Vatican Council II with Cushingism.
 
Cushingism says we can know on earth those who will be saved in invincible ignorance or those who will not be saved('who know').Archbishop Richard Cushing and the Jesuits opposed Fr.Leonard Feeney who believed that 'we cannot know' and so there are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Here is Vatican Council II on Islam interpreted with Cushingism and Feeneyism.

VATICAN COUNCIL II

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel...-Ad Gentes 7
FEENEYISM: The orange text does not contradict the text in yellow since the cases referred to are defacto not known to us, personally .We do not know and cannot know these cases. So they are not exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

CUSHINGISM: The orange text contradicts the text in yellow .It is assumed that thse cases are known to us in the present times. We can see the dead who are known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to Fr.Leonard Feeney.

There can be only one rational interpretation of these magisterial texts. If one assumes that the text in orange is an exception to the text in yellow, it would be implying that we can see the dead saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire who are known exceptions to the text in yellow.
So the official teaching of the Catholic Church on salvation and Islam ,before and after Vatican Council II has not changed-unless one is using Cushingism in the interpretation.
 
Pope Francis until today has never said that Muslims,Jews or Christian denominations need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation according to Vatican Council II. Instead he has said that inter religious dialogue is to be conducted according to Vatican Council II, in other words, according to Cushingism.
 
In his encyclical Lumen Fidei he indicates Christians have ecclesial faith.Again this is Cushingism.He assumes there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. There are visible exceptions in the present times, for him, and so postulates that there is known salvation outside the Catholic Church.All non Catholics, Christians and non Christians, for him, do not need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. Neither atheists!
 
We can see this false reasoning in the on line  theological papers of the International Theological Commission. Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J , the present Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF),Vatican, approved by Pope Francis, was responsible for this error on the Vatican website.It is based on this error of known exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church, that Cardinal Ladaria, with the approval of Pope Benedict XVI, put forward a theology of religions.
Pope Francis and Cardinal Ladaria, whether they know it or not, are representing the enemies of the Church  who want to infiltrate the Church and change Catholic doctrine and so destroy the Church in its present external form.
-Lionel Andrades


 

Are you referring to BOD(baptism of desire) visible to us or BOD invisible for us ?

On a sedevacantist blog I have sending comments which have suppressed by the blog owner. Here is a copy of the latest comments. I do not expect any answers from the Most Holy Family Monastery.-L.A

When will Bro.Peter and Michael Dimond clarify the following points ?
 
Catholic 2007 said:
At the moment your thinking demonstrates that you are not really a Catholic, you only think you are...
You reject EENS (extra ecclesiam nulla salus )...
 
Lionel:
Would I be accepting EENS if I said that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are not known to us in the present times?. Since these cases are known only to God they are not known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
So I could accept EENS alongwith implicit for us baptism of desire etc.It would not contradict the Principle of Non Contradiction.
If there is an apple in a box of oranges, the apple is an exception because it exists.If it was not there in the box it would not be an exception.
We cannot see or meet anyone saved with the baptism of desire etc.
 
Catholic 2007:
You believe the New Mass is a true Mass - it is not, and must be avoided.
 
Lionel:
It is the Sacrifice of Jesus reenacted in an unbloody way.
 
Catholic 2007:
You still believe in BOD...
 
Lionel:
Are you referring to BOD(baptism of desire) visible to us or BOD invisible for us ? If it is invisible for us then I can believe it is a possibility known only to God. It does not contradict Peter and Michael's interpretation of EENS.It is not an exception to the dogma on salvation.
 
Catholic 2007:
You appear to accept the Vatican II Church and it's "popes" as true popes, when they are not, and so their "canonizations" are meaningless.
 
Lionel:
When you refer to the Vatican Council II Church are you referring to Vatican Council II according to Cushingism or Feeneyism ?
Cushingism assumes the dead saved in invincible ignorance are visible to us on earth and so are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Feeneyism assumes that we cannot see these dead-saved and so there are no exceptions to the dogma EENS.
One can use Cushingism to interpret the Catechism, Dominus Iesus etc.Cushingism is irrational.
 
Catholic 2007:
All the hypothetical cases you raised have been well aired on the MHFM website, which you should have studied by now.( http://www.vaticancatholic.com )
 
Lionel:
The above points which I have mentioned have never been dealt with by Peter and Michael. It has been a few years since I have been posting them material and asking questions.
-Lionel Andrades