Conference of Bishops of England and Wales infers there are exceptions to the traditional teaching on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
There is no text in Vatican Council II which states there are known exceptions yet this is taken for granted by the Bishops.
It is an objective error to assume that the deceased saved with 'seeds of the Word' or ' a ray of that Truth' can be named or seen physically.
Professor Gavin D'Costa on the website of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales infers that those saved with 'rays of light' found in other religions(NA 2) and seeds of the Word (AG 11) mentioned in Vatican Council II refer to cases visible to us in real life.Since they are explicit for him he infers that they are exceptions to the traditional teaching on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
There is no text in Vatican Council II including NA 2 and AG 11 which states that these cases are explicit for us in 2014 or that they are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, defined by three Church Councils.Yet the English professor assumes that there are such text.
All salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II is implicit for us and explicit only for God. So hypothetical cases, accepted as possibilities of salvation cannot be objective, known exceptions to traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities.
On the video of the Bishop's Conference website Gavin D'Costa makes a factual error when he assumes that the deceased saved with 'seeds of the Word' or 'a ray of that one Truth' are visible to the naked eye. He cannot name any such person in England who has been saved or will be saved.This is irrational.
Professor Gavin D'Costa:
What does the Catholic Church officially think of other religions, some positive and some negative(3:38). The questions often asked are "Is my Hindu friend saved?"(3:58), or "Can a non Catholic or Christian be saved?"(4:04).
Lionel:
Yes as a possibility.However it is not to be infered that we know any such case. The ordinary means of salvation is 'faith and baptism' (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II). Nostra Aetate 2 ( a ray of the Truth) is not the ordinary means of salvation.Neither do we know of any case in particular who does not need faith and baptism for salvation .He should not imply that implicit for us cases are visible and so become exceptions.
Professor Gavin D'Costa:
He then says that Vatican Council II (4:08) "taught very clearly and unambigously that Yes, a person can be saved who is not a member of the Catholic Church.and in that sense it emphasized God's grace and love towards all people the desire for God to reach out to whoever seeks God in whatever way they can".
Lionel:
Yes hypothetically a person can be saved who is not a member of the Catholic Church. In reality we do not know any such case. We do not know if there were one or two such cases in 2014 or if there was no such case. He is infering here that we do know such cases and so this is relevant to the traditional teaching which states that all non Catholics are on the way to Hell unless they enter the Catholic Church.
Professor Gavin D'Costa:
He then says that "this is not relativisation of Catholicism saying it is one among other religions.Since the Council also taught that the Catholic Church is the true Church in the sense that Jesus Christ is the self Revelation of God and that is how God has come to speak to us ".
Lionel:
He only refers to Jesus being the Saviour in the sense that he is the Saviour of all who are saved. He ignores Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism. He ignores the necessity to be a visible member of the Catholic Church (with faith and baptism) for salvation.
If someone is saved in another religion it would not be known to D'Costa. So this case would not be an exception to all needing faith and baptism in England to go to Heaven.
Prof.D'Costa does not say this since he infers that those saved in other religions through Jesus and the Church, are known exceptions.
CCC 847 and 848 contradict CCC 846 for him and AG 7 is contradicted by NA 2 and AG 11 since these implicit for us cases are assumed to be explicit.
Professor Gavin D'Costa:
"People are not damned if they are not Catholics" (5:09)
Lionel:
According to Vatican Council II (AG 7) they are damned if they are not Catholics, since all need faith and baptism for salvation and they do not have it. According to CCC 846 and AG 7 all need to enter the Church as through a door.This is an affirmation of Outside the Church There is No Salvation.
Professor Gavin D'Costa:
The second point he makes
The second point he makes
What does the Church think of other religions he asks and says " Nostra Aetate produced in Vatican II said the following which is well worth remembering 'there are elements of truth goodness and beauty and seeds and rays of light to be found in these other religions.
Lionel:
No where in Vatican Council II are these invisible for cases claimed to be visible for us. So one can not infer that they are exceptions.
Professor Gavin D'Costa:
He then says Pope John Paul II taught that the Holy Spirit is present in these religions (5:53)
Lionel:
Pope John Paul II also said in Dominus Iesus that other religions have errors and superstition and they are not an equal path to salvation as the Catholic Church.
The Holy Spirit can be present in other religions but we cannot say that any one has been saved in other religion through the Holy Spirit.
-Lionel Andrades
2007-08-16.jpg)
Posts
