Friday, September 12, 2014

Both Conferences being held this week end don't have a Catholic Identity

Archbishop Vigneron

The Call to Holiness and the Catholic Identity Conference  being held this week end do not have a Catholic identity. Since both have something missing. This is due to the false premise used by the speakers and members at both  Conferences. With an irrational  premise used in the interpretation of magisterial documents, the Call to Holiness  Conference accepts Vatican Council as a break with the past.With the use of the same premise the Catholic Identity Conference also interprets Vatican Council II as  a break with the past and rejects it.
I do not use the premise. So Vatican Council II for me is Feeneyite and not a break with the past.
Catholic Identity Conference 2014 flyer

CTH Single Sheet1-b

If they would avoid the premise of the dead-man-walking-and-visible- on earth, they would  affirm Vatican Council II and extra ecclesiam uulla salus together. They could have it both ways. This would be possible since at both conferences they  would avoid the Cushing error.Then they would have a Catholic identity. It would be endorsing Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church with pre 1949 Church teachings and ecclesiology.Vatican Council II would be in in agreement with the  founders of the religious communities, like St.Francis of Assisi , St.Dominic ,St.Ignatius of Loyola etc
Presently both conference-groups are in heresy since they use  Cushingism.The infer there is known salvation outside the Church in 2014.For them those saved with the baptism of desire etc( allegedly without the baptism of water) are known and visible on earth.These are not hypothetical cases for them.  These theoretical cases are considered exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. 
If they are visible and known they would have to be exceptions. Theoretical cases are de facto exceptions? 
Another year and we have Catholic conferences with the same irrationality. Perhaps it will be the same next year too.

Their positon is irrational since the deceased-saved are in Heaven and cannot be exceptions to anything. It is also heretical since it is changing the meaning of the Nicence Creed( I believe in three or more baptisms  for the forgiveness of sin.These are replacements for the baptism of water) and the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (there is known salvation outside the Church and these cases are visible to us in 2014 so every one does not de facto have to be a formal members of the Church for salvation).
This is not our Catholic Identity.This is sin,irrationality and political expedience.
-Lionel Andrades



The Call to Holiness and Catholic Identity Conference speakers will use a false premise in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, Redemptoris Missio, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Dominus Iesus... http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/the-call-to-holiness-and-catholic.html

Two Catholic Conferences this week end - how would they interpret the Catechism of the Catholic Church ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/two-catholic-conferences-this-week-end_54.html

Two Catholic Conferences this week end: how would they interpret Redemptoris Missio? http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/two-catholic-conferences-this-week-end_11.html

Two Catholic Conferences this week end : how would they interpret Dominus Iesus ? http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/two-catholic-conferences-this-week-end.html

Two Conferences and an irrational premise
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/two-conferences-and-irrational-premise.html

Two Catholic Conferences : Both interpret Vatican Council II with an irrational premise.One accepts the Council the other rejects it
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/two-catholic-conferences-both-interpret.html

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Please explain this to Pope Francis and Cardinal Muller.Tell them that Vatican Council II can be interpreted with or without an irrational premise


It should be noted that Verrecchio is scheduled to speak at a "Catholic Identity Conference" in September. The other main speakers are:
  • Dr. John Rao
  • Michael Matt of The Remnant
  • John Vennari of Catholic Family News
  • Christopher Ferrara
  • James Vogel from Angelus Press (publishing arm of the SSPX)
  • Kenneth Wolfe of Rorate Caeli
  • Michael Brendan Doughtery from The American Conservative
All of these speakers are hard core traditionalists. They all disavow the validity of Vatican II to one extent or another, and by extension, the reject the "post Vatican II" church, as they define it. They all see the Traditional Latin Mass as the only valid Mass. They all are in basic disagreement with Pope Francis in almost everything he says and does.
http://catholicinbrooklyn.blogspot.it/


They all disavow the validity of Vatican II to one extent or another, and by extension, the reject the "post Vatican II" church, as they define it.
 
Traditionalists need to move quick and end comments like this.You do not have to go into schism if Vatican Council II without the irrational premise is traditionalist. It is the writers like the one above, Mark Shea etc who will be in trouble if they do not use an irrational premise in the interpretation of magisterial texts which is the basis for their liberalism and heresy.

They all disavow the validity of Vatican II to one extent or another
 
All traditionalists should disavow the validity of Vatican Council II interpreted with the irrational premise. The should disavow the validity of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Redemptoris Missio and Dominus Iesus interpreted with the false premise. They should avow these magisterial documents without the irrational premise.
 
They should avow the validity of Vatican Council II without the "I can see the dead in Heaven" theory.Without the use of the false premise there is nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict the Feenyite version, the traditional version, of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
 
This is not known to the sedevacantists CMRI,MHFM etc.They are sedevacantists  because they  reject Vatican Council II interpreted with the irrational premise. Eliminate the premise and the Council becomes traditional on other religions and Christian communities. Ecclesiology does not change at the Traditional Latin Mass or the Novus Ordo Mass.Identify the false premise and restore the Church! The Call to Holiness speakers and Archbishop Allen Vigneron, Archbishop of Detroit are using the false premise in the interpretation of Church documents and so ecclesiology has changed for them.
 
Please explain this  to Pope Francis and Cardinal Muller .Tell them that Vatican Council II can be interpreted with or without an irrational premise.-Lionel Andrades


http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/

The Call to Holiness and Catholic Identity Conference speakers will use a false premise in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, Redemptoris Missio, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Dominus Iesus...

My pick is the Call To Holiness, for several reasons. One, Archbishop Vigneron will be there, and as Terry Nelson at Abbey Roads said “Where the Bishop is, there is the Church”. I believe that. Two, the conference has the ‘imprimatur’, as it were, from the Archdiocese. Three, the CtH conferences were started years ago by Fr John Hardon in response to the pernicious Call to Action meetings (which started in Detroit, btw). An awesome and holy way to battle such evil. And four, the speakers at CtH are interested in helping the attendees to become better Catholics, and not to become Catholics who are better than other Catholics.
 
Over the last few blog posts I have analysed how the Call to Holiness and Catholic Identity Conference speakers will use a false premise in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, Redemptoris Missio, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Dominus Iesus etc.
 Archbishop Vigneron
The same irrational premise is used by Archbishop Allen Vigneron , the Archbishop of Detroit. So when it is said that  “Where the Bishop is, there is the Church” is a false slogan here.Since the Holy Spirit does not guide the Catholic Church, to teach Archbishop Vigneron and the CTH Conference, that there are deceased persons now saved in Heaven who are physically visible to the naked eye on earth and these cases are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Tradition.This is inferrred by those who interpret Vatican Council II as a break with the traditional teachings on other religions and Christian communities. This is taught in catechesis, evangelisation etc in Detroit.
So to say 'the conference has the ‘imprimatur’, as it were, from the Archdiocese' is meaningless for those who are aware of the factual error used in the interpretation of magisterial documents, especially Vatican Council II. If this factual error, the false premise, was not used, then Archbishop Allen Vigneron would have to endorse extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He will not be pemitted to do so by those who matter.So he allows Catholic doctrine to be changed and this is reflected in the Call to Holiness Conference.
Photo of Dr. Peter Kreeft 
The speakers at the Call to Holiness Conference like Peter Kreeft are not interesting in affirming Vatican Council II without the irrational premise.Kreeft would not be permitted to continue to teach at Boston College if he said that Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church without the irrational premise is Feeneyite.So to say the 'speakers at CtH are interested in helping the attendees to become better Catholics, and not to become Catholics who are better than other Catholics,' is meaningless. They are not exactly affirming Catholic teaching including Vatican Council II even after being informed. They are primarily helping themself. 
 
Michael Voris and Louie Verrechio had a discussion on Vatican Council II in Michael's studio in Detroit and they did not mention the false premise in the interpretation of Vatican Council II. This ignorance will also be there when Louie Verrechio speaks at the Catholic Identity Conference.
Possibly next year both conferences will repeat the same error and Michael Voris and Louie Verrechio will still not discuss the problem.
-Lionel Andrades
 
 
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