Tuesday, September 16, 2014

Holy Fear (and some trembling) -Michael Voris




There are souls in Hell at this very moment damned for all eternity who were at one stage of their lives holier than we are now -Michael Voris

Muller-Fellay Meeting : Game is fixed

The ball is too big for the hoop.The  game is rigged against the Society of St.Pius X( SSPX). Muller, Ladaria, Di Noia and Pozzo have all been associated with the International Theological Commission (ITC). At the ITC they have overlooked an objective error. They want to hook this factual mistake onto the SSPX, in the interpertation of Vatican Council II. The outcome is pre determined. Here is the loaded dice the SSPX has to accept from two ITC papers which can be read on line.
1.
'10. Exclusivist ecclesiocentrism—the fruit of a specific theological system or of a mistaken understanding of the phrase extra ecclesiam nulla salus—is no longer defended by Catholic theologians after the clear statements of Pius XII and Vatican Council II on the possibility of salvation for those who do not belong visibly to the Church (cf, e.g., LG 16; GS 22)...'-International Theological Commission, Christianity and the World Religions
(Lionel: The International Theological Commission(ITC) is implying here that the the possibility of salvation for those who do not belong visibly to the Church are visible for us.They are personally known cases.How can possibilities, which are are not real, actually known cases, be exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.? How can what is hypothetical be considered a real exception in 2014 ? This error leads to confusion in the interpretation of Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.The ITC is using the right hand column. 1 )
2.
67. Vatican Council II makes its own the expression extra ecclesiam nulla salus. But in using it the council explicitly directs itself to Catholics and limits its validity to those who know the necessity of the Church for salvation. The council holds that the affirmation is based on the necessity of faith and of baptism affirmed by Christ (LG 14). In this way the council aligned itself in continuity with the teaching of Pius XII, but emphasized more clearly the original parenthentical character of this expression.- Christianity and the World Religions 1997,International Theological Commission
(Lionel: The International Theological Commission,Vatican is implying here that   'those who know the necessity of the Church for salvation' are visible for us. Why mention these cases when they can only be judged by God. For the ITC these cases are relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They are exceptions to all needing the baptism of water for salvation.The ITC is saying that not  every one in 2014 needs to convert into the Chruch; not every one needs to be a formal member of the Church but only those who know...This is a new doctrine. It implies that we can know who 'knows' and who is in invincible ignorance.It also contradicts Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.The ITC is using the irrational  right hand column.)
3.
 59. The Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston (1949) offers further specifications. “To gain eternal salvation, it is not always required that a person be incorporated in reality (reapse) as a member of the Church, but it is necessary that one belong to it at least in desire and longing (voto et desiderio). It is not always necessary that this desire be explicit as it is with catechumens.
When one is invincibly ignorant, God also accepts an implicit desire, so called because it is contained in the good disposition of soul by which a person wants his or her will to be conformed to God’s will”. - The Hope of Salvation for Infants who die without the being baptized', International Theological Commission,2007
(Lionel: The International Theological Commission,Vatican is implying here that there are non Catholics saved without the baptism of water and who are in invincible ignorance or have had implicit desire/ baptism of desire.For them  to be exceptions to needing the baptism of water, they would have to be visible for us. They would have to be personally known otherwise how could they be exceptions? And how can they be personally known if they are are dead and are in Heaven ? How can people who are in Heaven be living exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus? This is the false premise that the ITC uses.It was approved by all the kings men. For the ITC these cases are relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They are exceptions.The ITC is using the irrational  right hand column.)  
Bishop Bernard Fellay will go innocently to the meeting.He will  assume that non Catholics saved without the baptism of water and with the baptism of desire etc and who are now happy in Heaven are visible to us on earth and these cases are living exceptions to all needing the baptism of water for salvation in 2014.
 
 Cardinal Muller will continue to tell all of us that Vatican Council II rejects Tradtion and the dogma extra eclesiam nulla salus. Since, for all the pro-Rabbinate men at the CDF, there are non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) etc who are living exceptions in 2014 (don't miss this !) to the dogma and Tradition.
  
This was the line the naive SSPX team got, in the Vatican-SSPX doctrinal talks.The talks were started  by Pope Benedict, who overlooked this new, subtle doctrine in Redemptoris Missio, the Catechism os the Catholic Church, Balamand Declaration, Dominus Iesus and the two ITC papers mentioned above.
There was  not a bleat of protest from Fr.J.M Gleize the theologian leading the SSPX side.He accepts the irrational premise the books he was written show.
 
 Now Bishop Bernard Fellay will be told by Muller,Ladaria, Di Noia and Pozzo  that if he does not endorse Vatican Council II with the  dead-saved-are-living-exceptions-to-Tradition theory ' this and that ' will follow,  as it happened  with the Franciscans of the Immaculate.
 
The SSPX can avoid the hurdles by clariftying the obvious. Announce  that we humans cannot see the dead in Heaven and they are not living exceptions to Tradition, especially the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla saluss.
 
Announce that it is with this rationality, that the SSPX will interpret Vatican Council II and all magisterial texts, in keeping with its General Chapter Statement.
-Lionel Andrades
 
 
 
____________________________________________________________________________
 
  
1
  
LEFT HAND SIDE COLUMN or RIGHT HAND SIDE COLUMN

All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3),seeds of the Word (AG 11), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2) etc are either:



implicit for us          or explicit for us.

hypothetical             or known in reality.

invisible                     or visible in the flesh.

dejure ( in principle)   or defacto ( in fact ).

subjective                   or objective

So one can choose from the left hand side or the right hand side column.

If the right hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition in general on other religions and Christian communities and churches. There are known exceptions in 2014 to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Cathlic Church. The dead- saved are visible.

If the left hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus, nor Tradition on other religions and Christian communities and churches.

Most people interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side values.

So the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance was never ever an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney, unless one is using the right hand side column.There were and are no known exceptions.
In 2014 the Padre Pio Prayer groups, the Neo Catechumenal Way, Charismatic Renewal, all the religious communities and most of the Diocesan priests are using the irrational column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston 1949,Redemptoris Missio, Mystici Corporis etc.-Lionel Andrades

...and also Cardinal Walter Kaspar