The Magisterial Heresy -4
ECCLESIOLOGY
Part 1
In the last video I listed some of the actual texts which use the irrational reasoning.The Magisterium and the secular media we can see use the irrational reasoning.So B is an exception to A . Here I would like to show how the irrational reasoning is used in Pontifical Universities and seminaries in Rome.This is done especially in Ecclesiology courses.
I begin with the Legionaries of Christ University UPRA in Rome, then the Urbaniana University's ecclesiology classes.Then we see the same irrationality being taught at the University of St.Thomas Aquinas Rome and then the same irrationality is encouraged by the St.John Lateran University and the Benedictine Pontifical university of St.Anselm in Rome.
It was because of the teaching of the old ecclesiology at the Franciscans of the Immaculate Philosophy seminary in Rome, that Pope Francis closed it down.No mercy for the old ecclesiology.Pope Francis and Cardinal Walter Kasper also use the irrational inference in the interpretation of Vatican Council II. The false inference is the basis for their new ecclesiology.They are not aware that without the false inference ecclesiology of the Novus Ordo Mass and the Traditional Latin Mass is the same, it is the old ecclesiology.This is the only rational ecclesiology.Ecclesiology does not depend on the liturgy.
So the Vatican Curia would be in a crisis if the SSPX asked them to cite references in Vatican Council II to support the new ecclesiology.There are none. They were only depending on the irrational premise and inference.Without it LG 16 is not an exception to the old ecclesiology.
For Fr.Jean Marie Gleize who teaches Ecclesiology at the SSPX seminary at Econe,Switzerland the SSPX Headquarters, Vatican Council II is not ecclesiocentric since he assumes there are exceptions to the dogma.For him B would contradict A and he would be interpreting Vatican Council II with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism. He uses the irrational premise and inference.It is the same error being made at the Pontifical Universities and seminaries in Rome.
Legionaries of Christ university in Rome teaches officially approved irrationality and heresy in Ecclesiology classes
At the Legionaries of Christ's University Pontficial Regina Apostolorum (UPRA) Fr.Nikola Derpich L.C in the teaching of Ecclesiology interprets Lumen Gentium as a break with the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This is the basis of the new ecclesiology which is being taught at all the Pontifical Universities in Italy.
He will teach students at UPRA that LG 16,LG 14, LG 8 refer to not invisible but visible cases in 2015. So they are explicit exceptions to the 'rigorist interpretation' of the dogma EENS.1This was the irrational reasoning used by the Magisterium in the Fr.Leonard Feeney case. It has conditioned theology and has become a part of the Deposit of the Faith, even though it is irrational, heretical and was not part of the Deposit of the faith before 1808. It contradicts the magisterial teaching on ecclesiology before 1808 and it is all done with the explicit-implicit irrationality.
PTEO1016 Ecclesiologia
P. Nikola Derpich LC Descrizione Generale Studieremo origine, natura, struttura e scopo della Chiesa alla luce della Rivelazione, con l’intenzione di raggiungere una comprensione fondamentale teologica, che favorisca un dialogo fruttifero sulle relative questioni odierne più discusse:
la sua origine e il ruolo di Gesù e dei suoi discepoli nella sua fondazione
l’appartenenza alla Chiesa
l’unità cristiana e il dialogo ecumenico
la santità e il peccato dentro la Chiesa
la vocazione delle diverse condizioni di vita nella Chiesa (chierici, laici, consacrati) e il loro rapporto
il ministero del Romano Pontefice e il ministero dei vescovi
le dimensioni gerarchiche e carismatiche della Chiesa
la sua missione nel mondo
la sua necessità per la salvezza Lingua di insegnamento ItalianoLearning Outcomes (LO) – Conoscenze e abilità da conseguire
1. Comprensione salda dell’origine, natura, struttura, e scopo della Chiesa.
2. Capacità di identificare la dimensione ecclesiologica di qualunque argomento per favorire un dialogo fruttifero e un progresso nella sua discussione e, quando sia necessario, la sua risoluzione.
3. Una buona conoscenza della costituzione dogmatica Lumen Gentium del Vaticano II
4. La capacità di fare un’indagine ecclesiologica ed esporre un argomento, collaborando in team.
5. L’apprendimento di un metodo teologico adatto a studiare un argomento di teologia dogmatica.
Metodologia
Lezioni magistrali con spazio per domande e risposte. Alcuni team, ogni settimana, esporranno la loro questione ecclesiologica. Infine, quiz informali, nel corso del semestre, serviranno a valutare la conoscenza della Lumen Gentium.
http://www.uprait.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2363&Itemid=102&lang=it
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Part 2
A lie is being promoted at pontifical universities and no Catholic is opposing it in public
It is unethical academically for a cardinal, bishop or priest-professor of ecclesiology to lie. Yet it is being done officially at the pontifical universities in Rome.The motive is political.
Fr.Peter Paul Saldhana (Urbaniana), Fr.Tomasso Stancati (Angelicum) and many professors project LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 as referring to visible cases in 2105.In this way Lumen Gentium refers to explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the old ecclesiology.
If they assume that LG 16, LG 8 and LG 14 refer to invisible for us cases, then it means all non Catholics need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell.They do not want to teach this.There will be accusations against them if they speak the truth. They will considered Anti Semitic, racist, bigoted etc and will not be allowed to teach by the Congregation for Catholic Education and the Cardinal Vallini, the Vicar General at the Rome Vicariate, who is in contact with the Jewish Left rabbis here.
So now the Catholic professors have to lie. They have to infer, imply and suggest that LG 16, LG 8 and LG 14 are invisible for us in 2015. So they become exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They also have to assume that these cases exclude the baptism of water, even when they do not know of any such case in real life.
They hide this lie, in ecclesiology class and speak about 'the mystery of the Church'.
___________________________
It is unethical academically for a cardinal, bishop or priest-professor of ecclesiology to lie. Yet it is being done officially at the pontifical universities in Rome.The motive is political.
Fr.Peter Paul Saldhana (Urbaniana), Fr.Tomasso Stancati (Angelicum) and many professors project LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 as referring to visible cases in 2105.In this way Lumen Gentium refers to explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the old ecclesiology.
If they assume that LG 16, LG 8 and LG 14 refer to invisible for us cases, then it means all non Catholics need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell.They do not want to teach this.There will be accusations against them if they speak the truth. They will considered Anti Semitic, racist, bigoted etc and will not be allowed to teach by the Congregation for Catholic Education and the Cardinal Vallini, the Vicar General at the Rome Vicariate, who is in contact with the Jewish Left rabbis here.
So now the Catholic professors have to lie. They have to infer, imply and suggest that LG 16, LG 8 and LG 14 are invisible for us in 2015. So they become exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They also have to assume that these cases exclude the baptism of water, even when they do not know of any such case in real life.
They hide this lie, in ecclesiology class and speak about 'the mystery of the Church'.
___________________________
Urbaniana Pontifical University also changes ecclesiology using the irrational premise and inference in the interpretation of Lumen Gentium,Vatican Council II
At the Pontifical University Urbaniana Rome also they are teaching Ecclesiology and calling it a mystery. This is a new mystery in the Church.They do not know how to present this 'new mystery' in the Church whose source is an irrationality, a false premise and inference, and so they are presenting it with Mariology.
There is no one to question them or correct all this.This is the new ideological presentation of Ecclesiology , the 'new ecclesiology', in the pontifical universities.
The aim is: get rid of the old ecclesiology. The Church does not believe any more in the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So Fr.Peter Paul Saldhana ( p.saldanha@urbaniana.edu ) when he teaches this course at the Urbanianum, in his Bliography he includes :
- PHILIPS, G., La Chiesa e il suo mistero nel Concilio Vaticano II. Storia, testo e commento della Costituzione Lumen Gentium, Jaca Books, Milano 1975 ( The Church and its mystery in Vatican Council II.)
Fr.Tommasso Stancotti O.P at the Angelicum gave us a clue to this 'mystery' in Vatican Council II which has changed the 'old ecclesiology'. He said it was Lumen Gentium.
For Fr.Saldhana too, LG 16( invincible ignorance) , LG 8( elements of sanctification and truth), LG 14 (implicit desire, invincible ignorance) refer to explicit, objective seen in the flesh cases in 2015. Since they are concrete and not abstract cases they become for him exceptions to the old ecclesiology, the extra ecclesiam nulla salus of the popes and saints.
No one is there to correct Fr.Saldhana, Fr.Stancoti, Fr.Francesco Giordana and Mobeen Shahid and tell them LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 could be interpreted as being implicit, invisible and hypothetical. So they are not exceptions to the old ecclesiology. There is nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict the old ecclesiology. The new ecclesiology is created by assuming LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 are visible to us in real life. This is irrational.It is no surprise that they call all this a 'mystery'.
TB1006 - Ecclesiologia e Mariologia (cr. 9 - Annuale)
P. SALDANHA
Obiettivi didattici:
Introdurre i temi ecclesiologici e mariologici fondamentali del mistero della Chiesa e di Maria, Madre di Cristo e Madre della Chiesa per un’adesione piu’ cosciente verso di loro.
Contenuti delle lezioni:
La storia dell’evoluzione dell’ecclesiologia e la svolta ecclesiologica del Vaticano II; i punti focali nella nuova ecclesiologia del Vaticano II; mistero, sacramento, comunione, diaconia; Maria come corona della Chiesa; i dogmi mariani e il culto verso Maria, Madre di Cristo e Madre della Chiesa.
Modalità di svolgimento:
Lezioni frontali; discussione in classe; relazione scritta su un testo ecclesiologico oppure mariologico.
Modalità di verifica:
Esame finale orale e valutazione dell’elaborato.
Bibliografia:
Bibliografia: PHILIPS, G., La Chiesa e il suo mistero nel Concilio Vaticano II. Storia, testo e commento della Costituzione Lumen Gentium, Jaca Books, Milano 1975; DULLES, A., Modelli della Chiesa, Messggero di Sant'Antonio, Padova 2005; PIÉ-NINOT, S., Ecclesiologia. La sacramentalità della comunità cristiana, Queriniana, Brescia 2008; CASTELLUCCI, E., La famiglia di Dio nel mondo. Manuale di ecclesiologia, Cittadella, Assisi 2008; KASPER, W., Chiesa Cattolica, Essenza-Realtà-Missione, Queriniana, Brescia 2012 (orig. ted, 2011); SALDANHA P.P., The Church. Mystery of Love and Communion, Urbaniana University Press, Città del Vaticano 2014; FARKASFALVY, D., The Marian Mystery. Outline of a Mariology, New York, St Paul, 2014; COGGI, R., Trattato di Mariologia. I misteri della fede in Maria, Bologna, Edizioni Studio Domenicano, 2011.
Fr.Peter Paul Saldhana is a priest from the diocese of Mangalore, India and a professor of Ecclesiology at the Pontifical University Urbaniana from where he obtained his licentiate and doctorate in Theology.
http://www.urbaniana.edu/uup/Pubbl_2014/The%20Church.htm
http://iscrizioni.urbaniana.edu/Kalendarium/File/Corsi.aspx?sigla=TB1006&anno=2015/2016&prof=695
http://iscrizioni.urbaniana.edu/Urbaniana/File/Corsi.aspx?sigla=TLD1074&anno=2015/2016&prof=695
http://iscrizioni.urbaniana.edu/Urbaniana/File/Professore.aspx?prof=695&anno=2015/2016
________________________________
Part 3
This semester Fr.Tommaso Stancati O.P teaches the new theology at the Angelicum based on LG 16 being explicit for us instead of implicit
Urbaniana Pontifical University also changes ecclesiology using the irrational premise and inference in the interpretation of Lumen Gentium,Vatican Council II
At the Pontifical University Urbaniana Rome also they are teaching Ecclesiology and calling it a mystery. This is a new mystery in the Church.They do not know how to present this 'new mystery' in the Church whose source is an irrationality, a false premise and inference, and so they are presenting it with Mariology.
There is no one to question them or correct all this.This is the new ideological presentation of Ecclesiology , the 'new ecclesiology', in the pontifical universities.
The aim is: get rid of the old ecclesiology. The Church does not believe any more in the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So Fr.Peter Paul Saldhana ( p.saldanha@urbaniana.edu ) when he teaches this course at the Urbanianum, in his Bliography he includes :
- PHILIPS, G., La Chiesa e il suo mistero nel Concilio Vaticano II. Storia, testo e commento della Costituzione Lumen Gentium, Jaca Books, Milano 1975 ( The Church and its mystery in Vatican Council II.)
Fr.Tommasso Stancotti O.P at the Angelicum gave us a clue to this 'mystery' in Vatican Council II which has changed the 'old ecclesiology'. He said it was Lumen Gentium.
For Fr.Saldhana too, LG 16( invincible ignorance) , LG 8( elements of sanctification and truth), LG 14 (implicit desire, invincible ignorance) refer to explicit, objective seen in the flesh cases in 2015. Since they are concrete and not abstract cases they become for him exceptions to the old ecclesiology, the extra ecclesiam nulla salus of the popes and saints.
No one is there to correct Fr.Saldhana, Fr.Stancoti, Fr.Francesco Giordana and Mobeen Shahid and tell them LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 could be interpreted as being implicit, invisible and hypothetical. So they are not exceptions to the old ecclesiology. There is nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict the old ecclesiology. The new ecclesiology is created by assuming LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 are visible to us in real life. This is irrational.It is no surprise that they call all this a 'mystery'.
TB1006 - Ecclesiologia e Mariologia (cr. 9 - Annuale)
P. SALDANHA
Obiettivi didattici:
Introdurre i temi ecclesiologici e mariologici fondamentali del mistero della Chiesa e di Maria, Madre di Cristo e Madre della Chiesa per un’adesione piu’ cosciente verso di loro.
Contenuti delle lezioni:
La storia dell’evoluzione dell’ecclesiologia e la svolta ecclesiologica del Vaticano II; i punti focali nella nuova ecclesiologia del Vaticano II; mistero, sacramento, comunione, diaconia; Maria come corona della Chiesa; i dogmi mariani e il culto verso Maria, Madre di Cristo e Madre della Chiesa.
Modalità di svolgimento:
Lezioni frontali; discussione in classe; relazione scritta su un testo ecclesiologico oppure mariologico.
Modalità di verifica:
Esame finale orale e valutazione dell’elaborato.
Bibliografia:
Bibliografia: PHILIPS, G., La Chiesa e il suo mistero nel Concilio Vaticano II. Storia, testo e commento della Costituzione Lumen Gentium, Jaca Books, Milano 1975; DULLES, A., Modelli della Chiesa, Messggero di Sant'Antonio, Padova 2005; PIÉ-NINOT, S., Ecclesiologia. La sacramentalità della comunità cristiana, Queriniana, Brescia 2008; CASTELLUCCI, E., La famiglia di Dio nel mondo. Manuale di ecclesiologia, Cittadella, Assisi 2008; KASPER, W., Chiesa Cattolica, Essenza-Realtà-Missione, Queriniana, Brescia 2012 (orig. ted, 2011); SALDANHA P.P., The Church. Mystery of Love and Communion, Urbaniana University Press, Città del Vaticano 2014; FARKASFALVY, D., The Marian Mystery. Outline of a Mariology, New York, St Paul, 2014; COGGI, R., Trattato di Mariologia. I misteri della fede in Maria, Bologna, Edizioni Studio Domenicano, 2011.
Fr.Peter Paul Saldhana is a priest from the diocese of Mangalore, India and a professor of Ecclesiology at the Pontifical University Urbaniana from where he obtained his licentiate and doctorate in Theology.
http://www.urbaniana.edu/uup/Pubbl_2014/The%20Church.htm
http://iscrizioni.urbaniana.edu/Kalendarium/File/Corsi.aspx?sigla=TB1006&anno=2015/2016&prof=695
http://iscrizioni.urbaniana.edu/Urbaniana/File/Corsi.aspx?sigla=TLD1074&anno=2015/2016&prof=695
http://iscrizioni.urbaniana.edu/Urbaniana/File/Professore.aspx?prof=695&anno=2015/2016
________________________________
Part 3
This semester Fr.Tommaso Stancati O.P teaches the new theology at the Angelicum based on LG 16 being explicit for us instead of implicit
At the Angelicum University in the first cycle of theology for students they are offered a course titled Il mistero della Chiesa ( The Mystery of the Church).It will be a theological introduction to the new ecclesiology according to Vatican Council II( Introduzione teologica alla nuova ecclesiologia cattolica del Concilio Vaticano II) based on Lumen Gentium ( Dogmatic Constitution of the Church)
During this course Fr.Tommaso Stancati O.P will speak on how Lumen Gentium has ushered in a new ecclesiology, since LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 refer to not implicit but explicit cases.For him they are not invisible cases in 2015.So these explicit cases (even though in Heaven) are exceptions to the traditional ecclesiology .They are visible exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus for him.Ecclesiology has changed for the Dominican priest.There is no more exclusive salvation in the Church. LG 16, LG 8 ,LG 14 refer to non Catholics saved without the baptism of water and are so evidence of salvation outside the Church.
For me, LG 16, LG 8 and LG 14 refer to invisible, implicit and known only to God cases.The text of LG 8, LG 14 and LG 16 do not state that these cases are explicit or exceptions to the dogmaextra ecclesiam nulla salus.So I do not make any irrational and non traditional inference. Nor does the text of Vatican Council II in Lumen Gentium 16 mention that these cases exclude the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.So they cannot be exceptions to the Feeneyite version of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
Yet all this will be wrongly inferred by Fr.Stancati and the other Dominican professors.Then they will conclude that Vatican Council II is a break with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Vatican Council II has a hermenutic of discontinuity with the old exclusivist ecclesiology.So with this irrationality they will teach at the University of St. Thomas Aquinas, Rome that there is a new ecclesiology.Students are expected to infer that LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 refer to known cases in the present times since they are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
PONTIFICIA UNIVERSITÀ UNIVERSITÀ S. TOMMASO D’AQUINO ANGELICUM ORDINE DEGLI STUDI ANNO ACCADEMICO 2015 - 2016
ACADEMIC YEAR HANDBOOK OF STUDIES
TI 1318 Il mistero della Chiesa. 5 ECTS Il mysterium Ecclesiæ: metodologia teologica ed ecclesiologia. La teologia della Chiesa nel Nuovo Testamento. L’ecclesiologia patristica: caratteri principali. Introduzione teologica alla nuova ecclesiologia cattolica del Concilio Vaticano II: la Costituzione dogmatica sulla Chiesa Lumen Gentium. Analisi particolareggiata e commento teologico dei temi biblico-teologici più rilevanti dei capp. I-III della Lumen Gentium. N.B. I restanti capitoli della Lumen Gentium saranno oggetto dello studio personale dello studente sul testo di base suggerito (o su altro testo concordato col Docente).
16 PRIMO CICLO FACOLTÀ DI TEOLOGIA BIBLIOGRAFIA: T. STANCATI, Ecclesiologia biblica e dogmatica, Ed. Domenicane Italiane, Napoli 2008; B. FORTE, La Chiesa della Trinità, Ed. San Paolo, 1995; G. PHILIPS, L’Église et son mystère, Desclée, Paris 19755; trad. it. La Chiesa e il suo mistero nel Concilio Vaticano II, Jaca Book, Milano 19822. T. STANCATI, O.P. Lun. 10.30-12.15; Mar. 9.30-10.1 (Emphasis added)
With an irrational inference dogmas and doctrines are being thrown out at the Angelicum University
At the Angelicum University in the first cycle of theology for students they are offered a course titled Il mistero della Chiesa ( The Mystery of the Church).It will be a theological introduction to the new ecclesiology according to Vatican Council II( Introduzione teologica alla nuova ecclesiologia cattolica del Concilio Vaticano II) based on Lumen Gentium ( Dogmatic Constitution of the Church)
During this course Fr.Tommaso Stancati O.P will speak on how Lumen Gentium has ushered in a new ecclesiology, since LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 refer to not implicit but explicit cases.For him they are not invisible cases in 2015.So these explicit cases (even though in Heaven) are exceptions to the traditional ecclesiology .They are visible exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus for him.Ecclesiology has changed for the Dominican priest.There is no more exclusive salvation in the Church. LG 16, LG 8 ,LG 14 refer to non Catholics saved without the baptism of water and are so evidence of salvation outside the Church.
For me, LG 16, LG 8 and LG 14 refer to invisible, implicit and known only to God cases.The text of LG 8, LG 14 and LG 16 do not state that these cases are explicit or exceptions to the dogmaextra ecclesiam nulla salus.So I do not make any irrational and non traditional inference. Nor does the text of Vatican Council II in Lumen Gentium 16 mention that these cases exclude the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.So they cannot be exceptions to the Feeneyite version of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
Yet all this will be wrongly inferred by Fr.Stancati and the other Dominican professors.Then they will conclude that Vatican Council II is a break with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Vatican Council II has a hermenutic of discontinuity with the old exclusivist ecclesiology.So with this irrationality they will teach at the University of St. Thomas Aquinas, Rome that there is a new ecclesiology.Students are expected to infer that LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 refer to known cases in the present times since they are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
PONTIFICIA UNIVERSITÀ UNIVERSITÀ S. TOMMASO D’AQUINO ANGELICUM ORDINE DEGLI STUDI ANNO ACCADEMICO 2015 - 2016
ACADEMIC YEAR HANDBOOK OF STUDIES
TI 1318 Il mistero della Chiesa. 5 ECTS Il mysterium Ecclesiæ: metodologia teologica ed ecclesiologia. La teologia della Chiesa nel Nuovo Testamento. L’ecclesiologia patristica: caratteri principali. Introduzione teologica alla nuova ecclesiologia cattolica del Concilio Vaticano II: la Costituzione dogmatica sulla Chiesa Lumen Gentium. Analisi particolareggiata e commento teologico dei temi biblico-teologici più rilevanti dei capp. I-III della Lumen Gentium. N.B. I restanti capitoli della Lumen Gentium saranno oggetto dello studio personale dello studente sul testo di base suggerito (o su altro testo concordato col Docente).
16 PRIMO CICLO FACOLTÀ DI TEOLOGIA BIBLIOGRAFIA: T. STANCATI, Ecclesiologia biblica e dogmatica, Ed. Domenicane Italiane, Napoli 2008; B. FORTE, La Chiesa della Trinità, Ed. San Paolo, 1995; G. PHILIPS, L’Église et son mystère, Desclée, Paris 19755; trad. it. La Chiesa e il suo mistero nel Concilio Vaticano II, Jaca Book, Milano 19822. T. STANCATI, O.P. Lun. 10.30-12.15; Mar. 9.30-10.1 (Emphasis added)
With an irrational inference dogmas and doctrines are being thrown out at the Angelicum University
For Fr.Tommaso Stancati O.P and Fr. Bernhard Blankenhorn O.P, Lumen Gentium (LG 16 etc) refers to explicit cases in 2015 saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. So Lumen Gentium has ushered in a new theology, there is a new ecclesiology. It replaces the old ecclesiology of the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation. So for him doctrine and dogma has clearly changed and this is what he teaches even though he does not know of any case in 2015 of someone saved without the baptism of water and Catholic Faith.
Similarly Fr.Francesco Giordano teaches this semester that being saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so every does not need to formally enter the Church, for example in Rome, for salvation.There is salvation outside the Church. So there is a change in dogma and doctrine for him. Doctrine has developed.He accepts Marchettiism and Cushingism and rejects Feeneyism like the liberals and the Left.
A development of doctrine. This is the name of a course in theology at the University of St.Thomas Aquinas ( Angelicum), Rome.It is called The Nature of Revelation and the Development of Doctrine.The dogma on salvation has changed and now there are new doctrines expressed in a new ecclesiology. All this was possible by assuming invisible for us cases are visible in the present times.They did it with the inference. They first assumed there are known cases in the present times of people saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church then after presuming that these invisible cases were visible, they inferred that these cases were visible exceptions to all needing to enter the Church for salvation.Even though these persons are hypothetical and abstract for us it was inferred that they were concrete and known.This is all irrational. Yet this is the basis for the theology of these professors.
For Fr.Tommaso Stancati O.P and Fr. Bernhard Blankenhorn O.P, Lumen Gentium (LG 16 etc) refers to explicit cases in 2015 saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. So Lumen Gentium has ushered in a new theology, there is a new ecclesiology. It replaces the old ecclesiology of the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation. So for him doctrine and dogma has clearly changed and this is what he teaches even though he does not know of any case in 2015 of someone saved without the baptism of water and Catholic Faith.
Similarly Fr.Francesco Giordano teaches this semester that being saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so every does not need to formally enter the Church, for example in Rome, for salvation.There is salvation outside the Church. So there is a change in dogma and doctrine for him. Doctrine has developed.He accepts Marchettiism and Cushingism and rejects Feeneyism like the liberals and the Left.
A development of doctrine. This is the name of a course in theology at the University of St.Thomas Aquinas ( Angelicum), Rome.It is called The Nature of Revelation and the Development of Doctrine.The dogma on salvation has changed and now there are new doctrines expressed in a new ecclesiology. All this was possible by assuming invisible for us cases are visible in the present times.They did it with the inference. They first assumed there are known cases in the present times of people saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church then after presuming that these invisible cases were visible, they inferred that these cases were visible exceptions to all needing to enter the Church for salvation.Even though these persons are hypothetical and abstract for us it was inferred that they were concrete and known.This is all irrational. Yet this is the basis for the theology of these professors.
I keep writing about this for years and they do not nothing about it. While the traditionalists and sedevacantists do not know what is happening still. They use the same irrationality, the same theology to interpret Vatican Council II. However unlike these professors they reject Vatican Council II while the Angelicum accepts Vatican Council II interpreted with the irrational inference.
So in this course on the development of doctrine and dogma the bibliography includes a book by J.Hick on the new theology. According to this 'Christian' theology of Religions, other religions are also paths to salvation.This is a new doctrine which became possible with explict for us LG 16, LG 8 etc.This course is taught by Fr.Bernard Blankenhorn O.P one of the many new,young Dominican priests who have accepted the new irrational theology.It contradicts Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) which says all need faith and baptism for salvation. Hindus, Buddhists,Jews, Muslims and pagans do not have faith and baptism.While Protestants and other Christians do not have Catholic Faith which includes the the Sacraments and the faith and moral teachings of the Church necessary to avoid mortal sin and preserve Sanctifying Grace.
PRIMO SEMESTRE – FIRST SEMESTER CORSI - COURSES 2015-2016
dP 1881 Fundamental Theology: The Nature of Revelation & the Development of Doctrine 3 ECTS
This course studies some key themes in fundamental theology from a Thomistic perspective, including (1) post-modern critiques of revelation, (2) the nature of revelation, especially the function of history and propositional revelation, and (3) the development of doctrine, with a focus on moral doctrine.
BIBLIOGRAPHY:
THOMAS AQUINAS, Summa Theologiae I, questions 1, 12-13, 43; II-II, questions 1-2; III, questions 36, 42-43, 55; M. CANO, De locis theologicis, Madrid: BAC, 2006; SECONDO CICLO - SECOND CYCLE 65 J. HICK, A Christian Theology of Religions: The Rainbow of Faiths. Louisville, Kentucky: Westminster John Knox Press, 1995; M. LEVERING, Engaging the Doctrine of Revelation, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Academic Press, 2014; J. T. NOONAN, A Church That Can and Cannot Change, South Bend: Univ. of Notre Dame Press, 2005 B. BLANKENHORN, O.P. Thu. 15.30-17.15
http://www.pust.it/attachments/article/32/Ordine%20Degli%20Studi%20A.A.%202015-2016.pdf
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Former Franciscans of the Immaculate
seminary faculty priest in U-turn:
teaches at the Angelicum University
I keep writing about this for years and they do not nothing about it. While the traditionalists and sedevacantists do not know what is happening still. They use the same irrationality, the same theology to interpret Vatican Council II. However unlike these professors they reject Vatican Council II while the Angelicum accepts Vatican Council II interpreted with the irrational inference.
So in this course on the development of doctrine and dogma the bibliography includes a book by J.Hick on the new theology. According to this 'Christian' theology of Religions, other religions are also paths to salvation.This is a new doctrine which became possible with explict for us LG 16, LG 8 etc.This course is taught by Fr.Bernard Blankenhorn O.P one of the many new,young Dominican priests who have accepted the new irrational theology.It contradicts Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) which says all need faith and baptism for salvation. Hindus, Buddhists,Jews, Muslims and pagans do not have faith and baptism.While Protestants and other Christians do not have Catholic Faith which includes the the Sacraments and the faith and moral teachings of the Church necessary to avoid mortal sin and preserve Sanctifying Grace.
PRIMO SEMESTRE – FIRST SEMESTER CORSI - COURSES 2015-2016
dP 1881 Fundamental Theology: The Nature of Revelation & the Development of Doctrine 3 ECTS
This course studies some key themes in fundamental theology from a Thomistic perspective, including (1) post-modern critiques of revelation, (2) the nature of revelation, especially the function of history and propositional revelation, and (3) the development of doctrine, with a focus on moral doctrine.
BIBLIOGRAPHY:
THOMAS AQUINAS, Summa Theologiae I, questions 1, 12-13, 43; II-II, questions 1-2; III, questions 36, 42-43, 55; M. CANO, De locis theologicis, Madrid: BAC, 2006; SECONDO CICLO - SECOND CYCLE 65 J. HICK, A Christian Theology of Religions: The Rainbow of Faiths. Louisville, Kentucky: Westminster John Knox Press, 1995; M. LEVERING, Engaging the Doctrine of Revelation, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Academic Press, 2014; J. T. NOONAN, A Church That Can and Cannot Change, South Bend: Univ. of Notre Dame Press, 2005 B. BLANKENHORN, O.P. Thu. 15.30-17.15
http://www.pust.it/attachments/article/32/Ordine%20Degli%20Studi%20A.A.%202015-2016.pdf
________________________
Former Franciscans of the Immaculate
seminary faculty priest in U-turn:
teaches at the Angelicum University
________________________
Former Franciscans of the Immaculate
seminary faculty priest in U-turn:
teaches at the Angelicum University
Part 4
What is Mobeen going to teach?
Part 4
What is Mobeen going to teach?
He is not willing to say Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II says all need faith and baptism for salvation and Muslims do not have it.
He is not going to teach that all Muslims are oriented to Hell according to Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14).
He is not going to say that LG 14 says those who 'know' about Jesus and the Church and yet do not enter are on the way to Hell.Muslims in Italy 'know'.The prophet Mohammad and his companions 'knew'.
He is not willing to say Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II says all need faith and baptism for salvation and Muslims do not have it.
He is not going to teach that all Muslims are oriented to Hell according to Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14).
He is not going to say that LG 14 says those who 'know' about Jesus and the Church and yet do not enter are on the way to Hell.Muslims in Italy 'know'.The prophet Mohammad and his companions 'knew'.
He is not affirming Vatican Council II.He is denying Vatican Council II in public and yet his mandatum;his canonical status to teach, has not been revoked by Cardinal Agostino Vallini, Vicar General, Rome (Vicariato).
Instead, its because he denies Vatican Council II that Mobeen Shahid is given the canonical status by Cardinal Vallini, to teach theology at the Ecclesia Mater of the Rome Vicariate.
Mobeen knows theology and yet he is denying the Faith.
For me all Muslims and other non Catholics are on the path to Hell according to the Catholic Church ( Vatican Council II, Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257 , Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441etc).
I do not know of any exception in 2015 to Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II which says all need ' faith and baptism' for salvation.
I do not know of any case this year, or in the past,saved with the baptism of desire or baptism of blood and without the baptism of water.I do not know of any one saved with 'elements of sanctification and truth'(LG 8), 'seeds of the Word'(AG 11) and without the baptism of water.I do not know of any one saved without the baptism of water this year, because God is not limited to the Sacraments (CCC 1257).
I do not know of any one saved with ' a ray of the Truth' (Nostra Aetate) or 'good and holy things' in other religions(Nostra Aetate) and so would contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the old ecclesiology.
Neither does Mobeen Shahid know of any exception to the dogmaextra ecclesiam nulla salus or to Vatican Council II 8AG 7, LG 14).
Mobeen has a doctorate from the Pontifical University John Lateran, Rome and teaches philosophy there and he is denying the Catholic Faith.
If I can affirm the Faith why cannot Mobeen?
Mobeen Shahid is not affirming Vatican Council II and has canonical status.The Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) and the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate (F.I) should protest.
I.S.S.R ECCLESIA MATER
piazza S.Giovanni in Laterano,4
00184 Roma
Te.06 6988.6298; 06 6989.5664
Tel./Fax 06 6988.6280
Mobeen Shahid, Prof,Ph.D (PUL)
EM,inc., La mistica islamica:terreno d'incontro tra Islam e Cristianesimo.
ISSR- Ordine Degli Studi Anno Academico 2015-2016
_________________________
He is not affirming Vatican Council II.He is denying Vatican Council II in public and yet his mandatum;his canonical status to teach, has not been revoked by Cardinal Agostino Vallini, Vicar General, Rome (Vicariato).
Instead, its because he denies Vatican Council II that Mobeen Shahid is given the canonical status by Cardinal Vallini, to teach theology at the Ecclesia Mater of the Rome Vicariate.
Mobeen knows theology and yet he is denying the Faith.
For me all Muslims and other non Catholics are on the path to Hell according to the Catholic Church ( Vatican Council II, Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257 , Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441etc).
I do not know of any exception in 2015 to Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II which says all need ' faith and baptism' for salvation.
I do not know of any case this year, or in the past,saved with the baptism of desire or baptism of blood and without the baptism of water.I do not know of any one saved with 'elements of sanctification and truth'(LG 8), 'seeds of the Word'(AG 11) and without the baptism of water.I do not know of any one saved without the baptism of water this year, because God is not limited to the Sacraments (CCC 1257).
I do not know of any one saved with ' a ray of the Truth' (Nostra Aetate) or 'good and holy things' in other religions(Nostra Aetate) and so would contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the old ecclesiology.
Neither does Mobeen Shahid know of any exception to the dogmaextra ecclesiam nulla salus or to Vatican Council II 8AG 7, LG 14).
Mobeen has a doctorate from the Pontifical University John Lateran, Rome and teaches philosophy there and he is denying the Catholic Faith.
If I can affirm the Faith why cannot Mobeen?
Mobeen Shahid is not affirming Vatican Council II and has canonical status.The Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) and the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate (F.I) should protest.
I.S.S.R ECCLESIA MATER
piazza S.Giovanni in Laterano,4
00184 Roma
Te.06 6988.6298; 06 6989.5664
Tel./Fax 06 6988.6280
Mobeen Shahid, Prof,Ph.D (PUL)
EM,inc., La mistica islamica:terreno d'incontro tra Islam e Cristianesimo.
ISSR- Ordine Degli Studi Anno Academico 2015-2016
_________________________
Mobeen Shahid is teaching a lie like the other professors at the Pontifical Lateran University, Rome to protect his career. He is encouraged in this by Cardinal Agostino Vallini, the Vicar General in Rome who hands out mandatums , canonical permissions to teach, to Catholic professors who teach a falsehood with the Magisterium's permission.So Mobeen's canonical status has not been revoked.
Mobeen will not affirm Vatican Council II which says 'all' need 'faith and baptism' for salvation(AG 7, LG 14).Nor will he affirm the dogmaextra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) in agreement with Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14).He is unable to say that according to Vatican Council II and EENS all Muslims in 2015 need to convert into the Catholic Church formally; with faith and baptism, to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
Instead like other obedient professors including priests, he will teach that LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 etc refer to explicit cases, visible in daily life in Rome or elsewhere. These objective cases, for him have been saved with 'faith and baptism' so they are exceptions to the orthodox passages in Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 , they contradict the dogma EENS. So these professors teach every one that all Muslims and other non Catholics do not need to formally enter the Church for salvation, since there are exceptions.
Some professors extend the exceptions to most Muslims, others keep it vague.
It's irrational and a falsehood to say LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 etc refer to known cases in the present times.
I have e-mailed these blog posts to Mobeen.Also in the past I have asked him two questions and he would not answer.
How can Dr.Mobeen Shahid, an Assistant Professor of Philosophy ( Phenomenology/ EdithStein/Husserl) reason philosophically that LG 16 refers to explicit cases and so is an objective exception to the dogma EENS and the need for all to formally enter the Church with 'faith and baptism'?
This is the philosophical reasoning taught to students in the Philosophy Department of the John Lateran University Rome by Mobeen and Prof.Angela Ales Bello ?
They both will not answer two questions which I have asked them. They have the mandatum to teach as Catholics.
Mobeen is following general instructions. It is not anything original and different which he is doing as a Catholic professor in Rome.
Mobeen Shahid is teaching a lie like the other professors at the Pontifical Lateran University, Rome to protect his career. He is encouraged in this by Cardinal Agostino Vallini, the Vicar General in Rome who hands out mandatums , canonical permissions to teach, to Catholic professors who teach a falsehood with the Magisterium's permission.So Mobeen's canonical status has not been revoked.
Mobeen will not affirm Vatican Council II which says 'all' need 'faith and baptism' for salvation(AG 7, LG 14).Nor will he affirm the dogmaextra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) in agreement with Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14).He is unable to say that according to Vatican Council II and EENS all Muslims in 2015 need to convert into the Catholic Church formally; with faith and baptism, to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
Instead like other obedient professors including priests, he will teach that LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 etc refer to explicit cases, visible in daily life in Rome or elsewhere. These objective cases, for him have been saved with 'faith and baptism' so they are exceptions to the orthodox passages in Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 , they contradict the dogma EENS. So these professors teach every one that all Muslims and other non Catholics do not need to formally enter the Church for salvation, since there are exceptions.
Some professors extend the exceptions to most Muslims, others keep it vague.
It's irrational and a falsehood to say LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 etc refer to known cases in the present times.
I have e-mailed these blog posts to Mobeen.Also in the past I have asked him two questions and he would not answer.
How can Dr.Mobeen Shahid, an Assistant Professor of Philosophy ( Phenomenology/ EdithStein/Husserl) reason philosophically that LG 16 refers to explicit cases and so is an objective exception to the dogma EENS and the need for all to formally enter the Church with 'faith and baptism'?
This is the philosophical reasoning taught to students in the Philosophy Department of the John Lateran University Rome by Mobeen and Prof.Angela Ales Bello ?
They both will not answer two questions which I have asked them. They have the mandatum to teach as Catholics.
Mobeen is following general instructions. It is not anything original and different which he is doing as a Catholic professor in Rome.
Professor of theology at Ecclesia Mater, Rome shy to comment on Islam
According to Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) Islam is not a parth to salvation and Muslims need to formally convert into the Catholic Church with 'faith and baptism' to avoid Hell- but this is not going to be taught to students by a lay professor Mobeen Shahid.
Dr. Mobeen Shahid offers a course on Islamic Mysticism and the encounter between Christianity and Islam in the 2015-2015 semester of the Ecclesia Mater of the Pontifical Lateran University, Rome.The course would be frequented by lay and religious in Rome.It is approved by the Vicariate of Rome.
Dr.Shahid, a Pakistani Assistant professor of Philosophy accepts Lumen Gentium 16 ( saved in invincible ignorance) and Lumen Gentium 8 ( elements of sanctification and truth). However for him LG 16 and LG 8 refer to explicit instead of implicit cases, people who are visible instead of invisible in the present times.So this is an excuse to reject the 'rigoristic interpretation' of the dogmaextra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So he will not say that the pre and post Vatican Council II teaching is that all Muslims need to convert for salvation.Instead he will say that LG 16 is an exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma. So all Muslims do not need to convert since there are exceptions for him.This is the officially correct teaching in the Rome diocese. The exceptions( people in Heaven) are persons known, objective and explicit in 2015.Ghosts!
I too accept LG 16 and LG 8 but for me these cases are invisible and known only to God.So they are not objective exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors. So according to the Catholic Church (Vatican Council II) all Muslims in Rome need to enter the Church to avoid the fires of Hell.
Over the last ten years or so I have often e-mailed Mobeen and asked him to answer basic questions on the Faith with regard to salvation. He will not. I met him personally in Rome and reminded him about this.He laughed and said "No Comment".
In the bibliography of the course he offers is Fr.Hans Kung's book on Islam.1
_________________________
Part 6
Jesus only without the neccesity of membership in the Church is being taught in theology at St. Anselm Rome
According to Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) Islam is not a parth to salvation and Muslims need to formally convert into the Catholic Church with 'faith and baptism' to avoid Hell- but this is not going to be taught to students by a lay professor Mobeen Shahid.
Dr. Mobeen Shahid offers a course on Islamic Mysticism and the encounter between Christianity and Islam in the 2015-2015 semester of the Ecclesia Mater of the Pontifical Lateran University, Rome.The course would be frequented by lay and religious in Rome.It is approved by the Vicariate of Rome.
Dr.Shahid, a Pakistani Assistant professor of Philosophy accepts Lumen Gentium 16 ( saved in invincible ignorance) and Lumen Gentium 8 ( elements of sanctification and truth). However for him LG 16 and LG 8 refer to explicit instead of implicit cases, people who are visible instead of invisible in the present times.So this is an excuse to reject the 'rigoristic interpretation' of the dogmaextra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So he will not say that the pre and post Vatican Council II teaching is that all Muslims need to convert for salvation.Instead he will say that LG 16 is an exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma. So all Muslims do not need to convert since there are exceptions for him.This is the officially correct teaching in the Rome diocese. The exceptions( people in Heaven) are persons known, objective and explicit in 2015.Ghosts!
I too accept LG 16 and LG 8 but for me these cases are invisible and known only to God.So they are not objective exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors. So according to the Catholic Church (Vatican Council II) all Muslims in Rome need to enter the Church to avoid the fires of Hell.
Over the last ten years or so I have often e-mailed Mobeen and asked him to answer basic questions on the Faith with regard to salvation. He will not. I met him personally in Rome and reminded him about this.He laughed and said "No Comment".
In the bibliography of the course he offers is Fr.Hans Kung's book on Islam.1
_________________________
Part 6
Jesus only without the neccesity of membership in the Church is being taught in theology at St. Anselm Rome
A course on salvation is being taught at the Benedictine St. Anselm University Rome by the theology department which excludes the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the necessity of the Catholic Church for salvation.
It presents Jesus without the necessity of formal entry into the Church, with ' faith and baptism' (AG 7, LG 14, Vatican Council II ) for salvation.The course is taught by E. López-Tello García.
This was not the salvation theology of St. Benedict.
Fr. S. Visintin OSB is the Dean of Theology who otherwise affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and says being saved with the baptism of desire, baptism of blood or in invincible ignorance are not explicit exceptions to the strict interpretation of the dogma. They are accepted as possibilities known only to God.
In other courses in theology Garcia interprets Vatican Council II as a break with the past. This would of course only be possible by mixing up the explicit-implicit distinction of LG 16 etc.This is being done officially at other Pontifical universities as if on cue.
33622 Dire la salvezza oggi
E. López-Tello García
Obiettivi
: Al termine del seminario lo studente è in grado di:
- studiare personalmente un modello soteriologico;
- approfondire le implicazioni di esso per l’insieme della teologia;
170 FT
- formulare in linguaggio contemporaneo il messaggio di salvezza.
Argomenti
: Il messaggio cristiano è innanzitutto un messaggio di salvezza. Cristo è il Salvatore, egli solo è il Redentore. Nonostante, il problema che confronta la Chiesa oggi è che si tende a non parlare sulla dimensione salvifica di Gesù Cristo (egli ci ha liberati dal peccato e dalla morte). La maggioranza dei cristiani preferiscono, invece, trattare solo sulla sua dimensione morale (egli ha fatto tutto bene, perciò noi dobbiamo seguire la strada del bene). Possiamo proclamare il Vangelo senza annunciare la salvezza? Come possiamo rendere testimonianza oggi della nostra liberazione? Quale linguaggio possiamo usare perché tutti riescano a capirci? È possibile annunciare il vangelo in termini semplici?
1. Il contenuto del messaggio di salvezza
2. Modelli di spiegazioni della salvezza
3. Proposte coerenti con la teologia
4. Proposte aperte alla pastorale
Bibliografia
: M. Gronchi, Trattato su Gesù Cristo Figlio di Dio Salvatore, Brescia 2008; B. Sesboüé, Il Dio della salvezza. I-VIII secolo: Dio, la Trinità, il Cristo, l’economia della salvezza, Casale Monferrato 1996; Idem, Gesù Cristo, l’unico mediatore. Saggio sulla redenzione e la salvezza. I., Cinisello Balsamo 1991.
DEAN OF THEOLOGY AT ST. ANSELM SAYS THERE ARE NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/10/dean-of-theology-at-st-anselm-says.html
Part 7
A course on salvation is being taught at the Benedictine St. Anselm University Rome by the theology department which excludes the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the necessity of the Catholic Church for salvation.
This was not the salvation theology of St. Benedict.
Fr. S. Visintin OSB is the Dean of Theology who otherwise affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and says being saved with the baptism of desire, baptism of blood or in invincible ignorance are not explicit exceptions to the strict interpretation of the dogma. They are accepted as possibilities known only to God.
In other courses in theology Garcia interprets Vatican Council II as a break with the past. This would of course only be possible by mixing up the explicit-implicit distinction of LG 16 etc.This is being done officially at other Pontifical universities as if on cue.
33622 Dire la salvezza oggi
E. López-Tello García
Obiettivi
: Al termine del seminario lo studente è in grado di:
- studiare personalmente un modello soteriologico;
- approfondire le implicazioni di esso per l’insieme della teologia;
170 FT
- formulare in linguaggio contemporaneo il messaggio di salvezza.
Argomenti
: Il messaggio cristiano è innanzitutto un messaggio di salvezza. Cristo è il Salvatore, egli solo è il Redentore. Nonostante, il problema che confronta la Chiesa oggi è che si tende a non parlare sulla dimensione salvifica di Gesù Cristo (egli ci ha liberati dal peccato e dalla morte). La maggioranza dei cristiani preferiscono, invece, trattare solo sulla sua dimensione morale (egli ha fatto tutto bene, perciò noi dobbiamo seguire la strada del bene). Possiamo proclamare il Vangelo senza annunciare la salvezza? Come possiamo rendere testimonianza oggi della nostra liberazione? Quale linguaggio possiamo usare perché tutti riescano a capirci? È possibile annunciare il vangelo in termini semplici?
1. Il contenuto del messaggio di salvezza
2. Modelli di spiegazioni della salvezza
3. Proposte coerenti con la teologia
4. Proposte aperte alla pastorale
Bibliografia
: M. Gronchi, Trattato su Gesù Cristo Figlio di Dio Salvatore, Brescia 2008; B. Sesboüé, Il Dio della salvezza. I-VIII secolo: Dio, la Trinità, il Cristo, l’economia della salvezza, Casale Monferrato 1996; Idem, Gesù Cristo, l’unico mediatore. Saggio sulla redenzione e la salvezza. I., Cinisello Balsamo 1991.
DEAN OF THEOLOGY AT ST. ANSELM SAYS THERE ARE NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/10/dean-of-theology-at-st-anselm-says.html
DEAN OF THEOLOGY AT ST. ANSELM SAYS THERE ARE NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/10/dean-of-theology-at-st-anselm-says.html
Part 7
Pope Francis has still closed the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate seminary and now we know that the issue was not the Traditional Latin Mass(TLM)but ecclesiology.TLM is associated with the old ecclesiology.
The seminarians at the former seminary of philosophy at Boccea, Rome were sent to other pontifical seminaries in Rome.There the ecclesiology is new and based on Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani's mistake.Lumen Gentium 16(LG 16) is considered an explcit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the oldecclesiology.
So all seminarians in Rome now, like Pope Francis and Pope Benedict XVI, have to accept Pope Pius XII's error.They have to use fantasy theology. They have to assume that the dead-saved in invincible ignorance(LG 16) are known in the present times.They are objective for us human beings. So they become exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
Hypothetical cases , known only to God, seminarians must affirm, are defacto and personally known in 2015 , to contradict the teaching on all needing to remain in the Church.The things you have to say and do today to be a Catholic priest!
Recently Cardinal Wilfrid Napier and the sedevacantists Bishop Donald Sanborn and Fr. Anthony Cekada agreed that we cannot see people in Heaven, in the present times, saved without the baptism of water.Yet the former FFI seminarians have to say they can see the dead. This is if they still want to be priests.
If they do not proclaim this falsehood , then there will be no exceptions in Vatican Council II to the rigorist intepretation of EENS.Ecclesiology will once again be traditional and rational. It wouldnot be politically correct with the Left.
Now the seminarians have to affirm an irrational ecclesiology which suggests that the dead for us, saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire, are visible, so there is salvation outside the Church. Since allegedly there is known salvation outside the Church every one does not need to be a formal member of the Church for salvation in the present times.
The new irrational ecclesiology is being followed also by the new Salesian Commissar of the Franciscans of the Immaculate.
No clarification or help can be expected from the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) and the other traditionalists.Since they are also making the same error, which originated during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII.It was accepted by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Von Hildebrand, Michael Davis and others.The Marchetti error is part of the curriculum in SSPX seminaries too. It can be read in a book published by the SSPX professor of Ecclesioloy at Econe, Fr.Jean Marie Gleize (Concilio Vaticano II : Un Dibattito Aperto).He has no clue to the cause of the error.
It seemed the same with the former commissar of the FFI, Fr.Fidenzio Volpi OFM cap. He referred to going back to the old ecclesiology as 'crypto Lefebvre'.He did not know what created thenew ecclesiology and assumed it was Vatican Council II.He also could have assumed that the liturgy of the old Mass was responsible for theold ecclesiology.It was not.
Traditionalists with the SSPX and MICM do not want to talk about this issue.Sedevacantists on Twiter get angry when they are shown that Pope Pius XII made an objective mistake.They do not want to discuss this issue any more.It would mean all these years they had made a mistake on Vatican Council II.
Meanwhile, a diocesan priest in Rome, who was a formator at the closed seminary in Boccea and who specialised on EENS academically, is still promoting Marchetti's error.It seems the prudent thing to do.He would give some good homilies at the Church of the Annunziata.
It is now some two years.I have not attended the FFI Traditional Latin Mass at the church of the Annunziata, in Lungotevere, Rome.Pope Francis' ban is still being implemented in that small church.Religious magazines ( Christ to the World) have been suspended and their editorial policy changed.
No mercy for the old ecclesiology.
The seminarians at the former seminary of philosophy at Boccea, Rome were sent to other pontifical seminaries in Rome.There the ecclesiology is new and based on Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani's mistake.Lumen Gentium 16(LG 16) is considered an explcit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the oldecclesiology.
So all seminarians in Rome now, like Pope Francis and Pope Benedict XVI, have to accept Pope Pius XII's error.They have to use fantasy theology. They have to assume that the dead-saved in invincible ignorance(LG 16) are known in the present times.They are objective for us human beings. So they become exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
Hypothetical cases , known only to God, seminarians must affirm, are defacto and personally known in 2015 , to contradict the teaching on all needing to remain in the Church.The things you have to say and do today to be a Catholic priest!
Recently Cardinal Wilfrid Napier and the sedevacantists Bishop Donald Sanborn and Fr. Anthony Cekada agreed that we cannot see people in Heaven, in the present times, saved without the baptism of water.Yet the former FFI seminarians have to say they can see the dead. This is if they still want to be priests.
If they do not proclaim this falsehood , then there will be no exceptions in Vatican Council II to the rigorist intepretation of EENS.Ecclesiology will once again be traditional and rational. It wouldnot be politically correct with the Left.
Now the seminarians have to affirm an irrational ecclesiology which suggests that the dead for us, saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire, are visible, so there is salvation outside the Church. Since allegedly there is known salvation outside the Church every one does not need to be a formal member of the Church for salvation in the present times.
The new irrational ecclesiology is being followed also by the new Salesian Commissar of the Franciscans of the Immaculate.
No clarification or help can be expected from the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) and the other traditionalists.Since they are also making the same error, which originated during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII.It was accepted by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Von Hildebrand, Michael Davis and others.The Marchetti error is part of the curriculum in SSPX seminaries too. It can be read in a book published by the SSPX professor of Ecclesioloy at Econe, Fr.Jean Marie Gleize (Concilio Vaticano II : Un Dibattito Aperto).He has no clue to the cause of the error.
It seemed the same with the former commissar of the FFI, Fr.Fidenzio Volpi OFM cap. He referred to going back to the old ecclesiology as 'crypto Lefebvre'.He did not know what created thenew ecclesiology and assumed it was Vatican Council II.He also could have assumed that the liturgy of the old Mass was responsible for theold ecclesiology.It was not.
Traditionalists with the SSPX and MICM do not want to talk about this issue.Sedevacantists on Twiter get angry when they are shown that Pope Pius XII made an objective mistake.They do not want to discuss this issue any more.It would mean all these years they had made a mistake on Vatican Council II.
Meanwhile, a diocesan priest in Rome, who was a formator at the closed seminary in Boccea and who specialised on EENS academically, is still promoting Marchetti's error.It seems the prudent thing to do.He would give some good homilies at the Church of the Annunziata.
It is now some two years.I have not attended the FFI Traditional Latin Mass at the church of the Annunziata, in Lungotevere, Rome.Pope Francis' ban is still being implemented in that small church.Religious magazines ( Christ to the World) have been suspended and their editorial policy changed.
No mercy for the old ecclesiology.
If any priest says that LG 16 etc are zero cases in
Vatican Council II he will get a phone call from the
Vicariate, maybe a visit from Bishop Matteo Zuppi,
the Sant Egidio auxiliary bishop in Rome, or be
contacted by his superior.
Since the Masons have made it a condition
that no one should be allowed to interpret
Vatican Council II without the Marchetti
theology, the Marchetti ecclesiology. Priests
have to say that they can see people in Heaven
in the present times saved without the baptism
of water.
MARCHETTI MODEL OBLIGATORY
Today morning I was talking to a priest who
agrees that there are no personally known,
physically visible cases of persons saved without
the baptism of water today. These cases in
Heaven are not visible to us. They are
hypothetical cases for us. So they cannot
be exceptions to rigorist interpretation of the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
This is Feeneyism.
If I post the name of the priest here
he will get a warning from the Vatican/Vicariate.
He knows this.This blog is monitored by the
liberals.
So even though he knows there are no
exceptions he is still going to interpret
Vatican Council II with the Marchetti model.
It is common for priests who offer the Traditional
Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass, to use
the new ecclesiology, based on
Marchetti's wrong premise and inference.Liturgy
is then politically correct.
This is politically acceptable for the Vatican
even though it is not the truth and not the teaching
of the Catholic Church in Vatican Council II
according to Feeneyism.
If this priest intepreted Vatican Council II
with Feeneyism he would be saying that
all Jews, Muslims and other non Catholics,
according to Vatican Council II, need to
convert into the Church to avoid Hell.
This is Vatican Council II according to
Feeneyism.
Professors of theology like Dr.Joseph Shaw,
John Lamont and Thomas Pink use the Marchetti
model to interpret Vatican Council II. They have
received the mandatum to teach theology only
because they use Marchetti's model.
Similarly Prof. Robert de Mattei, Corrado
Gnerre, Fr.Francesco Giordano and others
in Italy, also use the Marchetti model to
interpret Vatican Council II.They would not
dare intepret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism.
They would not be allowed to teach.
Any one who studies theology, salvation
theology ( soteriology), at a Vatican approved
university or seminary, has to use the Marchetti
irrationality to interpret the dogma and Vatican
Council II.
They can attend/offer the Traditional Latin
Mass, but only with the new ecclesiology,
since it is official and obligatory.
_______________________
Part 8
If any priest says that LG 16 etc are zero cases in
Vatican Council II he will get a phone call from the Vicariate, maybe a visit from Bishop Matteo Zuppi, the Sant Egidio auxiliary bishop in Rome, or be contacted by his superior.
Since the Masons have made it a condition
that no one should be allowed to interpret Vatican Council II without the Marchetti theology, the Marchetti ecclesiology. Priests have to say that they can see people in Heaven in the present times saved without the baptism of water.
MARCHETTI MODEL OBLIGATORY
Today morning I was talking to a priest who
agrees that there are no personally known, physically visible cases of persons saved without the baptism of water today. These cases in Heaven are not visible to us. They are hypothetical cases for us. So they cannot be exceptions to rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This is Feeneyism.
If I post the name of the priest here
he will get a warning from the Vatican/Vicariate. He knows this.This blog is monitored by the liberals.
So even though he knows there are no
exceptions he is still going to interpret Vatican Council II with the Marchetti model.
It is common for priests who offer the Traditional
Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass, to use the new ecclesiology, based on Marchetti's wrong premise and inference.Liturgy is then politically correct.
This is politically acceptable for the Vatican
even though it is not the truth and not the teaching of the Catholic Church in Vatican Council II according to Feeneyism.
If this priest intepreted Vatican Council II
with Feeneyism he would be saying that all Jews, Muslims and other non Catholics, according to Vatican Council II, need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell. This is Vatican Council II according to Feeneyism. Professors of theology like Dr.Joseph Shaw, John Lamont and Thomas Pink use the Marchetti model to interpret Vatican Council II. They have received the mandatum to teach theology only because they use Marchetti's model. Similarly Prof. Robert de Mattei, Corrado Gnerre, Fr.Francesco Giordano and others in Italy, also use the Marchetti model to interpret Vatican Council II.They would not dare intepret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism. They would not be allowed to teach.
Any one who studies theology, salvation
theology ( soteriology), at a Vatican approved university or seminary, has to use the Marchetti irrationality to interpret the dogma and Vatican Council II.
They can attend/offer the Traditional Latin
Mass, but only with the new ecclesiology, since it is official and obligatory.
_______________________
Part 8
|
The ecclesiology of Pope Francis and Cardinal Kaspar is based on the objective error in the Letter
of the Holy Office 1949
Cardinal Kaspar spoke on the “Theological
Background of the Ecclesiological and
Ecumenical Vision of Pope Francis.” 1
The ecclesiology of Pope Francis and Cardinal
Kaspar is based on the objective error in the
Letter of the Holy Office 1949 when it was assumed
that persons in Heaven were visible on earth to be
explicit exceptions to the traditional interpretation
of extra eclesiam nulla salus. Pope Francis and
Cardinal Kaspar reject the dogma.
Their ecclesiology is also supported
by the irrational inference they use in
the interpretation of Vatican Council II.
Visible-for-us Lumen Gentium 16 is an
exception to all needing faith and baptism
for salvation (Ad Gentes 7). So Vatican Council
II becomes a break with the past since there is
defacto, known, objectively seen cases of non
Catholics, in 2014 ,saved without the baptism
of water. Really? Objectively seen deceased
persons?
LG 8,UR 3,NA 2 all refer to persons now
saved and who are known and seen in 2014
on earth with the naked eye for the pope and
Cardinal Kaspar. They would have to be
seen to be exceptions to the traditional
teaching on salvation i.e every one needs
to the baptism of water in the Catholic Church
for salvation.
Since there is salvation outside the Church for
them ( as if they could provide the name and
surname of these ghosts visible on earth)
Protestants and Orthodox Christians do not
have to convert into the Catholic Church.
The visible dead theory is the basis for their
theology on ecumenism.
This is bad theology. It is based on an
irrational premise.
1.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/dont-use-pope-francis-to-push-your-own-agenda-cardinal-kasper-admonishes-op
______________________
Part 9
Cardinal Kaspar spoke on the “Theological
Background of the Ecclesiological and Ecumenical Vision of Pope Francis.” 1
The ecclesiology of Pope Francis and Cardinal
Kaspar is based on the objective error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 when it was assumed that persons in Heaven were visible on earth to be explicit exceptions to the traditional interpretation of extra eclesiam nulla salus. Pope Francis and Cardinal Kaspar reject the dogma.
Their ecclesiology is also supported
by the irrational inference they use in the interpretation of Vatican Council II. Visible-for-us Lumen Gentium 16 is an exception to all needing faith and baptism for salvation (Ad Gentes 7). So Vatican Council II becomes a break with the past since there is defacto, known, objectively seen cases of non Catholics, in 2014 ,saved without the baptism of water. Really? Objectively seen deceased persons? LG 8,UR 3,NA 2 all refer to persons now saved and who are known and seen in 2014 on earth with the naked eye for the pope and Cardinal Kaspar. They would have to be seen to be exceptions to the traditional teaching on salvation i.e every one needs to the baptism of water in the Catholic Church for salvation.
Since there is salvation outside the Church for
them ( as if they could provide the name and surname of these ghosts visible on earth) Protestants and Orthodox Christians do not have to convert into the Catholic Church. The visible dead theory is the basis for their theology on ecumenism. This is bad theology. It is based on an irrational premise.
1.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/dont-use-pope-francis-to-push-your-own-agenda-cardinal-kasper-admonishes-op
______________________
Part 9
|
Pope Pius XII made a factual mistake :
ecclesiology of the Novus Ordo and
Traditional Latin Mass are now the same
Vatican must stop targetting the Latin Mass with the traditional ecclesiology.
Since the factual mistake of Pope Pius XII shows that the ecclesiology of the Mass in the vernacular is the same as that of the Traditional Latin Mass.
Catholic Religious who offer the Novus Ordo Mass say there are no exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
The new ecclesiology, new
theology and the theology of
religions is based on
there being salvation outside
the Catholic Church.There is no
such known case.This is a factual
mistake which has been made in the
Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the
Archbishop of Boston during the
pontificate of Pope Pius XII.
It is important for the Franciscans
of the Immaculate and the Fischer
More College , who have been
deprived of the Traditional Latin
Mass , to note the error of Pope PIus
XII which has entered Vatican
Council II. Vatican Council II ,without
the irrational premise, supports
Fr.Leonard Feeney.
It is crypto Lefebvrian to
assume that the deceased-saved
are visible on earth in 2014.
Since this is the wrong reading
of the Letter of the Holy Office
1949 by the Society of St.Pius X
(SSPX) .
All traditionalists must affirm
Vatican Council II ( without the
false premise) . Vatican Council
II without the visible-dead premise
is as traditional as Fr.Leonard Feeney.
They must continue to reject
Vatican Council II and the Letter
of the Holy Office when it is
assumed that those saved in
invincible ignorance (LG 16)
are an exception to the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Being saved in invincible
ignorance or the baptism
of desire, are always invisible
for us.So they are not exceptions
to the traditional interpretation
of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
This was an error, a new
doctrine which came into
the Catholic Church during
the pontificate of Pope Pius XII.-
__________________________________
Vatican must stop targetting the Latin Mass with the traditional ecclesiology.
Since the factual mistake of Pope Pius XII shows that the ecclesiology of the Mass in the vernacular is the same as that of the Traditional Latin Mass.
Catholic Religious who offer the Novus Ordo Mass say there are no exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
The new ecclesiology, new
theology and the theology of religions is based on there being salvation outside the Catholic Church.There is no such known case.This is a factual mistake which has been made in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII.
It is important for the Franciscans
of the Immaculate and the Fischer More College , who have been deprived of the Traditional Latin Mass , to note the error of Pope PIus XII which has entered Vatican Council II. Vatican Council II ,without the irrational premise, supports Fr.Leonard Feeney.
It is crypto Lefebvrian to
assume that the deceased-saved are visible on earth in 2014. Since this is the wrong reading of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 by the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) .
All traditionalists must affirm
Vatican Council II ( without the false premise) . Vatican Council II without the visible-dead premise is as traditional as Fr.Leonard Feeney. They must continue to reject Vatican Council II and the Letter of the Holy Office when it is assumed that those saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) are an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Being saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire, are always invisible for us.So they are not exceptions to the traditional interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
This was an error, a new
doctrine which came into the Catholic Church during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII.-
__________________________________
|
Ecclesiology does not depend on liturgy in Rome
Mons. Ignacio Barreiro, Fr.Joseph Kramer FSSP and Fr.Francesco Giordano will not affirm the 'old ecclesiology' in public in Rome.
They offer the Tridentine Rite Mass in Rome
and affirm the 'new ecclesiology' even after being
infomed. Neither will they provide their name and
telephone number , for any one who wants
information about the teachings of the Catholic
Church.They will not provide this information for
a pamphlet which says the Catholic Church teaches
that Islam and the other religions are not paths
to salvation. They call it being prudent. They mean
this in a worldly sense.
They do not want to be persecuted while they will
persecute any one who affirms the 'old
ecclesiology' and the dogmaextra ecclesiam
nulla salus.
Vatican Council II is in accord with the dogma
on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church
and the position of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
They are not going to say this in public.
So here we have the ecclesiology not being dependent on the Traditional Latin Mass as the SSPX believes it is.
Then there are priests who offer the Novus
Ordo Mass in Rome who affirm the dogma
on salvation in agreement with Vatican Council
II and the Catechism of the Catholic
Church.They support the 'old ecclesiology'.
The new ecclesioology would be irrational
since it is based on an irrational premise.
It uses the dead man walking and visible
theory.
So ecclesiology, here depends on the use or
omission of a false premise in the
interpretation of magisterial documents.
This is independent of the liturgy.
________________________________
Part 10
Mons. Ignacio Barreiro, Fr.Joseph Kramer FSSP and Fr.Francesco Giordano will not affirm the 'old ecclesiology' in public in Rome.
They offer the Tridentine Rite Mass in Rome
and affirm the 'new ecclesiology' even after being infomed. Neither will they provide their name and telephone number , for any one who wants information about the teachings of the Catholic Church.They will not provide this information for a pamphlet which says the Catholic Church teaches that Islam and the other religions are not paths to salvation. They call it being prudent. They mean this in a worldly sense.
They do not want to be persecuted while they will
persecute any one who affirms the 'old ecclesiology' and the dogmaextra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Vatican Council II is in accord with the dogma
on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church and the position of Fr.Leonard Feeney. They are not going to say this in public.
So here we have the ecclesiology not being dependent on the Traditional Latin Mass as the SSPX believes it is.
Then there are priests who offer the Novus
Ordo Mass in Rome who affirm the dogma on salvation in agreement with Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.They support the 'old ecclesiology'. The new ecclesioology would be irrational since it is based on an irrational premise. It uses the dead man walking and visible theory.
So ecclesiology, here depends on the use or
omission of a false premise in the interpretation of magisterial documents. This is independent of the liturgy.
________________________________
Part 10
|
THE TRADITIONAL ECCLESIOLOGY OF EVERY ONE NEEDING TO BE A VISIBLE MEMBER OF THE CHURCH FOR SALVATION IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE CATECHISM AND
VATICAN COUNCIL II
I repeat: the traditional theology( ecclesiology)
is every one needs to be a visible member of the
Church for salvation and there are no known exceptions.
This is compatible with the Catechism of the Catholic
Church (846) saying all who are saved are saved
through Jesus and the Church.
It is compatible with those who say that all
salvation comes from Jesus' Sacrifice and it is
mediated through Jesus and the Church.
It is compatible since physically we do not know
any one in 2013 saved in the so called 'exceptions
category' i.e the baptism of desire, invincible ignorance etc.
If you would acknowledge that physically we
cannot see these cases then you could also
accept that being saved with a good conscience etc
in Vatican Council II are not exceptions to the
traditional understanding that every one needs
to be a visible member of the Church for salvation,
in 2013.
_______________________
I repeat: the traditional theology( ecclesiology)
is every one needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation and there are no known exceptions.
This is compatible with the Catechism of the Catholic
Church (846) saying all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church.
It is compatible with those who say that all
salvation comes from Jesus' Sacrifice and it is mediated through Jesus and the Church.
It is compatible since physically we do not know
any one in 2013 saved in the so called 'exceptions category' i.e the baptism of desire, invincible ignorance etc.
If you would acknowledge that physically we
cannot see these cases then you could also accept that being saved with a good conscience etc in Vatican Council II are not exceptions to the traditional understanding that every one needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation, in 2013.
_______________________
|
VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE TRADITIONAL ECCLESIOLOGY WHICH TAUGHT, FOR SALVATION EVERY ONE NEEDED TO BE A VISIBLE MEMBER OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
Lionel:
'When we profess one Baptism for the forgiveness
of sins we are professing that our Lord instituted
one sacrament of baptism for the forgiveness
of sins, but we are not professing that the baptisms
of blood and desire are not included in the one
Baptism, for they certainly are, “in so far as they
produce the effect of the Baptism of Water.'
Could this also include those saved with
a good conscience (LG 16),elements of
sanctification (LG , seeds of the word (AG),
imperfect communion with the church (UR) etc ?
So in 2013 every adult needs Catholic Faith
with the baptism of water for salvation, the
baptism of water being the only known and
repeatable form of baptism ? There are no
known exceptions to the baptism of water and
Catholic Faith, for salvation?
Michael:
When we profess one Baptism for the forgiveness
of sins we are professing that our Lord instituted
one sacrament of baptism for the forgiveness
of sins, but we are not professing that the baptisms
of blood and desire are not included in the one
Baptism, for they certainly are, “in so far as they
produce the effect of the Baptism of Water.”
Lionel:
This is one theology.There could be others.
If you use the primacy of grace it could be
expressed differently.Similalry, if you accept
Our Lady as Co Redemptrix and Mediatrix
of All Grace it is expressed differently.
Though the understanding would be the same.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (846) has
the same message when it says all who are saved
are saved through Jesus and the Church.
All this does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla
salus according to the traditional ecclesiology
(theological understanding of Church). For salvation,
every one needs to be a visible member of the
Catholic Church and there are no known exceptions
of invincible ignorance, implicit desire, good
conscience, seeds of the word, imperfect
communion with the Church, etc.
The new theology is false if one assumes there are
known exceptions to the traditional understanding
of Church according to the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
__________________________-
Part 11
Lionel:
'When we profess one Baptism for the forgiveness
of sins we are professing that our Lord instituted one sacrament of baptism for the forgiveness of sins, but we are not professing that the baptisms of blood and desire are not included in the one Baptism, for they certainly are, “in so far as they produce the effect of the Baptism of Water.' Could this also include those saved with a good conscience (LG 16),elements of sanctification (LG , seeds of the word (AG), imperfect communion with the church (UR) etc ?
So in 2013 every adult needs Catholic Faith
with the baptism of water for salvation, the baptism of water being the only known and repeatable form of baptism ? There are no known exceptions to the baptism of water and Catholic Faith, for salvation?
Michael:
When we profess one Baptism for the forgiveness
of sins we are professing that our Lord instituted one sacrament of baptism for the forgiveness of sins, but we are not professing that the baptisms of blood and desire are not included in the one Baptism, for they certainly are, “in so far as they produce the effect of the Baptism of Water.”
Lionel:
This is one theology.There could be others.
If you use the primacy of grace it could be expressed differently.Similalry, if you accept Our Lady as Co Redemptrix and Mediatrix of All Grace it is expressed differently. Though the understanding would be the same.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (846) has
the same message when it says all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church.
All this does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla
salus according to the traditional ecclesiology (theological understanding of Church). For salvation, every one needs to be a visible member of the Catholic Church and there are no known exceptions of invincible ignorance, implicit desire, good conscience, seeds of the word, imperfect communion with the Church, etc.
The new theology is false if one assumes there are
known exceptions to the traditional understanding
of Church according to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
__________________________-
Part 11 |
THE VATICAN CURIA IS IN A CRISIS
WITH THEIR POLITICAL VERSION OF
VATICAN COUNCIL II: SSPX
SHOULD ASK THEM FOR REFERENCE
TEXTS
They Vatican is supported by the Jewish Left
media but they have no citations for their
‘ecclesiology of communion’, ‘theology of religions’
and ‘non Catholics do not have to convert for
salvation’.
The SSPX –Vatican (Ladaria-Morerod) talks were kept secret. This helped the Vatican which has no citations from the Council for their new theories and obligations.
1.Eclesiology of communion Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II says all
need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water
for salvation.Since LG 8 and LG 16 are not
explicit they do not contradict AG 7. The
Curia cannot cite LG 8 or LG 16 as
exceptions.
2.Theology of religions:As mentioned above Ad Gentes 7, Vatican
Council II says all need Catholic Faith and
the baptism of water. Since LG 8 and LG
16 are not explicit they do not contradict
AG 7.Neither do we know who is saved
with the seeds of the Word and imperfect
communion with the Church.
AG 7 is in accord with the literal interpetation
of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus and there are no known exceptions.
Cardinals Ladaria and Koch cannot cite any
exceptions from the Council.
3. Jews do not have to convert in the present time :There is no text in Vatican Council II to support this un-biblical theory. This new political view is contradicted by AG 7, the Bible (John 3:5,Mk.16:16), the dogma on salvation etc.
4.Jews are the Chosen People of God : The Bible says Jews need to convert and
there is a New Covenant. Nostra Aetate 4,
Vatican Council II says Catholics 'are the new
people of God'.
_____________________________
They Vatican is supported by the Jewish Left
media but they have no citations for their ‘ecclesiology of communion’, ‘theology of religions’ and ‘non Catholics do not have to convert for salvation’.
The SSPX –Vatican (Ladaria-Morerod) talks were kept secret. This helped the Vatican which has no citations from the Council for their new theories and obligations.
1.Eclesiology of communion Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II says all
need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.Since LG 8 and LG 16 are not explicit they do not contradict AG 7. The Curia cannot cite LG 8 or LG 16 as exceptions.
2.Theology of religions:As mentioned above Ad Gentes 7, Vatican
Council II says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water. Since LG 8 and LG 16 are not explicit they do not contradict AG 7.Neither do we know who is saved with the seeds of the Word and imperfect communion with the Church.
AG 7 is in accord with the literal interpetation
of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and there are no known exceptions.
Cardinals Ladaria and Koch cannot cite any
exceptions from the Council.
3. Jews do not have to convert in the present time :There is no text in Vatican Council II to support this un-biblical theory. This new political view is contradicted by AG 7, the Bible (John 3:5,Mk.16:16), the dogma on salvation etc.
4.Jews are the Chosen People of God : The Bible says Jews need to convert and
there is a New Covenant. Nostra Aetate 4, Vatican Council II says Catholics 'are the new people of God'.
_____________________________
|
Where is the text in Vatican Council II which refers to an ecclesiology of communion?
The Theological and Spiritual Section of the 50th International Eucharistic Congress has just appealed to the Spirit of Vatican Council II and without any texts says that the focus should be on Jesus and so communion with all Christian denominations. It then assumes that the Holy Spirit is promoting the Church in this direction.(1)
In other words I could in the name of Jesus and the Spirit of Vatican Council II attend a Jehovah's Witness program and in communion with them do street evangelization, distribute sacred pictures of Jesus and also speak about Jesus as understood by their religion.
It also means according to the organisers that the Holy Spirit is denying Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II and is saying that for salvation all non Catholics no more need to enter the Church.
Even though Vatican Council II indicates outside the church there is no salvation and there is an exclusive ecclesiocentrism in the Catholic Church, as in the past, it is being said that the Spirit now teaches something different i.e Protestant and Orthodox Christians are not on the way to Hell, unless they convert. Instead, their religions are equal paths to salvation as the Catholic Church. So joint evangelization is being encouraged in the name of Jesus even with those in the mortal sin of faith, in heresy.
Where is the text in Vatican Council II which refers to an ecclesiology of communion?
There is none!
(1)
Promoting the Ecclesiology and Spirituality of Communion
34. In the light of the Second Vatican Council’s
ecclesiology of communion that centred on the
Person of Jesus Christ, it could be said that the
Spirit today is prompting the whole Church in
the direction of promoting a spirituality of
communion that lets Jesus Christ be
seen and encountered.-THE EUCHARIST
COMMUNION WITH CHRIST AND WITH
ONE ANOTHER Theological and Pastoral
Reflections in Preparation for the 50th
International Eucharistic Congress. June
10-17 Dublin Ireland.
_________________________
Part 12
The Theological and Spiritual Section of the 50th International Eucharistic Congress has just appealed to the Spirit of Vatican Council II and without any texts says that the focus should be on Jesus and so communion with all Christian denominations. It then assumes that the Holy Spirit is promoting the Church in this direction.(1)
In other words I could in the name of Jesus and the Spirit of Vatican Council II attend a Jehovah's Witness program and in communion with them do street evangelization, distribute sacred pictures of Jesus and also speak about Jesus as understood by their religion.
It also means according to the organisers that the Holy Spirit is denying Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II and is saying that for salvation all non Catholics no more need to enter the Church.
Even though Vatican Council II indicates outside the church there is no salvation and there is an exclusive ecclesiocentrism in the Catholic Church, as in the past, it is being said that the Spirit now teaches something different i.e Protestant and Orthodox Christians are not on the way to Hell, unless they convert. Instead, their religions are equal paths to salvation as the Catholic Church. So joint evangelization is being encouraged in the name of Jesus even with those in the mortal sin of faith, in heresy.
Where is the text in Vatican Council II which refers to an ecclesiology of communion?
There is none!
(1)
Promoting the Ecclesiology and Spirituality of Communion
34. In the light of the Second Vatican Council’s
ecclesiology of communion that centred on the Person of Jesus Christ, it could be said that the Spirit today is prompting the whole Church in the direction of promoting a spirituality of communion that lets Jesus Christ be seen and encountered.-THE EUCHARIST COMMUNION WITH CHRIST AND WITH ONE ANOTHER Theological and Pastoral Reflections in Preparation for the 50th International Eucharistic Congress. June 10-17 Dublin Ireland.
_________________________
Part 12
|
Fr. Francois Laisney indicates that for the SSPX the Church is no more ecclesiocentric since there are explicit exceptions to the dogma on
salvation
Fr.Francois Laisney of the SSPX ‘s
controversial book Is Feeneyism
Catholic is available on the
Internet and it indicates why the
Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) does not realize that their error is in ecclesiology, the rejection of ecclesiocentrism and not realizing that Vatican
Council II is a traditional Council
in agreement with traditional values,
including that of the SSPX on
other religions, ecumenism and
religious liberty.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
admitted that a person could
be saved in invincible ignorance
etc but did not say that these cases
were explicitly known to us or that
they are explicit exceptions to the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
In the book made available for
SSPX seminarians Fr.Laisney
who has been associated with
the Australian branch of the
community writes on the baptism
of desire and is critical of Fr.Leonard
Feeney just like the liberals.
His oversight is : he assumes that
the baptism of desire is an explicit
exception to the literal interpretation
of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus.
If Fr.Leonard Feeney accepted
the baptism of desire or rejected
it , he does not realize, is irrelevant
to his literal interpretation of the dogma.
This is the point missed out by other
SSPX priests too and also their
bishops.Since they assume that
the baptism of desire and invincible
ignorance are explicit exceptions
to the dogma they assume that
LG 16, Vatican Council II contradicts
the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
This was the propaganda of Fr.Hans
Kung but the error originated
with Cardinal Richard Cushing and
the Jesuits in Boston in the 1940’s.
Since the SSPX believes that those
saved with a good conscience etc
are known to us they assume that
Vatican Council II contradicts
the traditional teaching on other
religions etc.
So for the SSPX the Church is no more ecclesiocentric since there are explicit exceptions to the dogma on salvation.Fr. Peter Scott of the SSPX
writes:
Many erudite works (I recommend Father Rulleau’s
book, Baptism of Desire and Father Laisney’s
new book, Is Feeneyism Catholic? published by
Angelus Press, which will be available by the end
of May) list texts from the Fathers and theologians,
who are unanimous in their teaching about the
possibility of baptism of blood and desire.
http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/feeneyism/may_01_district_superiors_letter.htm
The Church Fathers are unanimous in their teaching about the possibility of baptism of desire but none of them claim that these cases are explicitly known as Fr. Scott implies. None of them have said that the baptism of desire is an explicit exception to the dogma on salvation. So for Fr. Scott the Church is no more ecclesiocentric. There are known exceptions. No wonder their community is confused on Vatican Council II. They say they accept extra ecclesiam nulla salus but mean there are explicit exceptions to the traditional interpretation.
The problem is not with VaticanCouncil II but their interpretation which is irrational. Since cases saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are unknown to us. They can only be accepted in principle.They cannot be exceptions known to us.
It's now a few years that I have been writing on this subject. No one from the SSPX refuteswhat I write or even comments.-Lionel Andrades
____________________________
Fr.Francois Laisney of the SSPX ‘s
controversial book Is Feeneyism Catholic is available on the Internet and it indicates why the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) does not realize that their error is in ecclesiology, the rejection of ecclesiocentrism and not realizing that Vatican Council II is a traditional Council in agreement with traditional values, including that of the SSPX on other religions, ecumenism and religious liberty.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
admitted that a person could
be saved in invincible ignorance
etc but did not say that these cases
were explicitly known to us or that
they are explicit exceptions to the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
In the book made available for
SSPX seminarians Fr.Laisney who has been associated with the Australian branch of the community writes on the baptism of desire and is critical of Fr.Leonard Feeney just like the liberals.
His oversight is : he assumes that
the baptism of desire is an explicit exception to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
If Fr.Leonard Feeney accepted
the baptism of desire or rejected it , he does not realize, is irrelevant to his literal interpretation of the dogma.
This is the point missed out by other
SSPX priests too and also their bishops.Since they assume that the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are explicit exceptions to the dogma they assume that LG 16, Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This was the propaganda of Fr.Hans Kung but the error originated with Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits in Boston in the 1940’s.
Since the SSPX believes that those
saved with a good conscience etc are known to us they assume that Vatican Council II contradicts the traditional teaching on other religions etc.
So for the SSPX the Church is no more ecclesiocentric since there are explicit exceptions to the dogma on salvation.Fr. Peter Scott of the SSPX
writes:
Many erudite works (I recommend Father Rulleau’s
book, Baptism of Desire and Father Laisney’s
new book, Is Feeneyism Catholic? published by
Angelus Press, which will be available by the end
of May) list texts from the Fathers and theologians,
who are unanimous in their teaching about the
possibility of baptism of blood and desire.
http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/feeneyism/may_01_district_superiors_letter.htmThe Church Fathers are unanimous in their teaching about the possibility of baptism of desire but none of them claim that these cases are explicitly known as Fr. Scott implies. None of them have said that the baptism of desire is an explicit exception to the dogma on salvation. So for Fr. Scott the Church is no more ecclesiocentric. There are known exceptions. No wonder their community is confused on Vatican Council II. They say they accept extra ecclesiam nulla salus but mean there are explicit exceptions to the traditional interpretation. The problem is not with VaticanCouncil II but their interpretation which is irrational. Since cases saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are unknown to us. They can only be accepted in principle.They cannot be exceptions known to us.
____________________________
|
Is the Catholic Church ecclesiocentric
SSPX? It cannot be ecclesiocentric if
those saved with the baptism of desire
are explicitly known and not just
accepted in principle.
The Society of St.Pius X professors
of ecclesiology need to be asked
how can the Church be
ecclesiocentric if it is is accepted
that those saved in invincible
ignorance are known to us,
instead of being known only
to God.
This is the error being
taught at SSPX seminaries.
The Church Fathers and
the Magisterial documents
only mention being saved in
invincible ignorance and implicit
desire.Neither do they state
that the dogma extra ecclesiam
nulla salus has been contradicted.
Neither does the Letter of the
Holy Office 1949 make this claim
when it mentions ‘the
dogma’ the ‘infallible statement'.
The text of the dogma is the literal
interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
If the Letter of the Holy Office
1949 assumed implicit desire is an
exception to the dogma then
it was a mistake.Since
if Fr. Leonard Feeney rejected
the baptism of desire, in
principle or fact, it is irrelevant
to his literal interpretation of the
dogma.
The SSPX has made an error in ecclesiology and are ‘piutting the blaime’ on Vatican Council II. I can accept Vatican Council II as a traditional Council and affirm the traditional teachings on ecumenism and other religions, which is also held by the SSPX.
The SSPX like the Vatican Curia
does not accept the Catholic
Church as ecclesiocentric
since they think that there are
known exceptions, in heaven
and on earth, to the traditional
interpretation of the dogma.
Also when they accept that
all in general on earth need
to enter the Church for salvation,
they cannot say that there
is exclusive salvation in only
the Catholic Church, because
of the‘exceptions’.
Similarly they believed that all
in general at the Assisi
interfaith meeting needed
to convert into the Church
for salvation but could not
say all with no known exceptions
need to convert.
For the SSPX bishops
Vatican Council II contradicts
the dogma on exclusive salvation
when it is really their interpretation
that is in error.
They could not point out
the error in the
International Theological
Commission papers during the
Vatican-SSPX talks , since like
Fr.Luiz Ladaria S.J and Fr.
Charles Morerod O.P,
the SSPX team assumed
that the Church is no more
ecclesiocentric.
So the error is in ecclesiology, their interpretation , and they assume it is in Vatican CouncilII with respect to other religions,ecumenism and religious liberty..
___________________________
The Society of St.Pius X professors
of ecclesiology need to be asked how can the Church be ecclesiocentric if it is is accepted that those saved in invincible ignorance are known to us, instead of being known only to God.
This is the error being
taught at SSPX seminaries. The Church Fathers and the Magisterial documents only mention being saved in invincible ignorance and implicit desire.Neither do they state that the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has been contradicted.
Neither does the Letter of the
Holy Office 1949 make this claim when it mentions ‘the dogma’ the ‘infallible statement'. The text of the dogma is the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
If the Letter of the Holy Office
1949 assumed implicit desire is an exception to the dogma then it was a mistake.Since if Fr. Leonard Feeney rejected the baptism of desire, in principle or fact, it is irrelevant to his literal interpretation of the dogma.
The SSPX has made an error in ecclesiology and are ‘piutting the blaime’ on Vatican Council II. I can accept Vatican Council II as a traditional Council and affirm the traditional teachings on ecumenism and other religions, which is also held by the SSPX.
The SSPX like the Vatican Curia
does not accept the Catholic Church as ecclesiocentric since they think that there are known exceptions, in heaven and on earth, to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.
Also when they accept that
all in general on earth need to enter the Church for salvation, they cannot say that there is exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church, because of the‘exceptions’.
Similarly they believed that all
in general at the Assisi interfaith meeting needed to convert into the Church for salvation but could not say all with no known exceptions need to convert.
For the SSPX bishops
Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma on exclusive salvation when it is really their interpretation that is in error.
They could not point out
the error in the International Theological Commission papers during the Vatican-SSPX talks , since like Fr.Luiz Ladaria S.J and Fr. Charles Morerod O.P, the SSPX team assumed that the Church is no more ecclesiocentric. So the error is in ecclesiology, their interpretation , and they assume it is in Vatican CouncilII with respect to other religions,ecumenism and religious liberty..
___________________________
|
Fr.Jean Marie Gleize says Vatican Council II contradicts outside the church there is no salvation:
no such Council text cited
Fr.Jean Marie Gleize, the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) professor of ecclesiology who also teachesat the SSPX seminary in Econe says:
Note: Father Gleize says : "The past Magisterium
affirms that outside the Catholic Church ( in the
heretical sects and schismatics who are considered
as such) there is no salvific value and that Divine
Providence does not use these sects as the
means of salvation, Vatican II says exactly
the opposite " (1)
The past Magisterium has
affirmed outside the church
there is no salvation and
it is Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
himself who has said that non
Catholics can be saved in
their religion. So Vatican Council
II would be in agreement with
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.(2)
However Vatican Council II does
not state that non Catholics are
saved in general in their religion.
There is no such text.
If there was such clear text it would
contradict Ad Gentes 7 which says
all need faith and baptism.
Fr.Gleize is using the false
premise in the interpretation
of LG 8 and UR 3 (p.128).
Ad Gentes 7 (3) and Lumen
Gentium 14 refer to the
ordinary means of salvation
(Redemptoris Missio 55).
LG 16( invincible ignorance),
LG 8 and LG 3 cannot rationally
be considered the ordinary means
of salvation.
When Archbishop Lefebvre said
that a Hindu in Tibet could
be saved in his religion he was
speaking about a hypothetical
case. We do not know any
such case said
Fr. Mauro Tranquillo yesterday
(4). So if there is someone saved
in another religion with the
baptism of desire or in invincible
ignorance it is not a known
exception to the past
Magisterial teaching on outside
the church there is no salvation.
Archbishop Lefebvre
has affirmed the
dogma extra
ecclesiam nulla
salus which is the
norm. He accepts the possibility
of a non Catholic being saved
in his religion and this hypthetical
case would not contradict
the dogma on salvation.
Fr.Jean Marie Gleize
uses the false premise
usually in the interpretation
of Vatican Council II
(5) and this is cited by
Cristina Siccardi.(p.128).He
interprets Vatican Council
II (LG 8 and UR 3) with the
false premise.
(1)
Nota di padre Gleize: "Il magistero
anteriore afferma che al di fuori
della Chiesa cattolica, nelle sette
schismatiche ed eretiche prese
come tali: ne vi è alcun valore
salvifico e che la Divina Provvidenza
non si serve di queste sette come
dei mezzi di salvezza , il Vaticano
II afferma esattamente il contrario"
I'Inverno della Chiesa deopo il Concilio Vatiano II- i mutamenti e le cause- Cristina Siccardi (Sugarco,Milano 2013) pp.128-133
2.
Consider a Hindu in Tibet who has no knowledge of the Catholic Church. He lives according to his conscience and to the laws which God has put into his heart. He can be in the state of grace, and if he dies in this state of grace, he will go to heaven.” (The Angelus, “A Talk Heard Round the World,” April, 2006, p. 5.)
Evidently,certain distinctions must be made. Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism,etc.), but not by this religion. There may be souls who, not knowing Our Lord, have by the grace of the good Lord, good interior dispositions,who submit to God...But some of these persons make an act of love which implicitly is equivalent to baptism of desire.("Against the Heresies",p.216)
3.
Therefore, all must be converted to
Him, made known by the Church's
preaching, and all must be incorporated
into Him by baptism and into the
Church which is His body. For Christ
Himself "by stressing in express language
the necessity of faith and baptism
(cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same
time confirmed the necessity of the
Church, into which men enter by baptism,
as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.
4.
There are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus-Fr.Mauro Tranquilo
5.
False Premise : We can physically
see , know a Protestant in
2013 saved as such.
Conclusion:
Cases of imperfect communion
with the Church are visible
to us so they are known
exceptions to extra
ecclesiam nulla salus.
Without the False Premise: UR 3 refers to a
possibility known only
to God. Since it is
unknown to us it
cannot be an exception
to the dogma on
exclusive salvation.
False Premise: We can physically see,
know a Jew or Hindu who
is 'good and holy'
and is saved in 2013.
Conclusion:
Cases of good and holy
non Catholics who are
saved or going to
be saved, are known
exceptions to the
dogma extra ecclesiam
nulla salus.
Without the False Premise: NA 2 is a
possibility , a hypothetical
case. It is irrelevant
to the dogma on salvation.
False Premise: Those saved with the
' seeds of the Word'
(AG 11 etc) are
personally known
to us. We can meet them.
Conclusion: Since these cases
are personally known
to us , they are
visible exceptions
to the dogma
outside the church
there is no salvation.
Without the False Premise: There are no known
exceptions to the
traditional teaching
on other religions.NA
2 is not one of them.
_______________________________________________
Fr.Jean Marie Gleize, the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) professor of ecclesiology who also teachesat the SSPX seminary in Econe says:
Note: Father Gleize says : "The past Magisterium
affirms that outside the Catholic Church ( in the heretical sects and schismatics who are considered as such) there is no salvific value and that Divine Providence does not use these sects as the means of salvation, Vatican II says exactly the opposite " (1)
The past Magisterium has
affirmed outside the church there is no salvation and it is Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre himself who has said that non Catholics can be saved in their religion. So Vatican Council II would be in agreement with Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.(2)
However Vatican Council II does
not state that non Catholics are saved in general in their religion. There is no such text.
If there was such clear text it would
contradict Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism. Fr.Gleize is using the false premise in the interpretation of LG 8 and UR 3 (p.128). Ad Gentes 7 (3) and Lumen Gentium 14 refer to the ordinary means of salvation (Redemptoris Missio 55). LG 16( invincible ignorance), LG 8 and LG 3 cannot rationally be considered the ordinary means of salvation.
When Archbishop Lefebvre said
that a Hindu in Tibet could be saved in his religion he was speaking about a hypothetical case. We do not know any such case said Fr. Mauro Tranquillo yesterday (4). So if there is someone saved in another religion with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance it is not a known exception to the past Magisterial teaching on outside the church there is no salvation.
Archbishop Lefebvre
has affirmed the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which is the norm. He accepts the possibility of a non Catholic being saved in his religion and this hypthetical case would not contradict the dogma on salvation.
Fr.Jean Marie Gleize
uses the false premise usually in the interpretation of Vatican Council II (5) and this is cited by Cristina Siccardi.(p.128).He interprets Vatican Council II (LG 8 and UR 3) with the false premise.
(1)
Nota di padre Gleize: "Il magistero
anteriore afferma che al di fuori della Chiesa cattolica, nelle sette schismatiche ed eretiche prese come tali: ne vi è alcun valore salvifico e che la Divina Provvidenza non si serve di queste sette come dei mezzi di salvezza , il Vaticano II afferma esattamente il contrario"
I'Inverno della Chiesa deopo il Concilio Vatiano II- i mutamenti e le cause- Cristina Siccardi (Sugarco,Milano 2013) pp.128-133
2.
Consider a Hindu in Tibet who has no knowledge of the Catholic Church. He lives according to his conscience and to the laws which God has put into his heart. He can be in the state of grace, and if he dies in this state of grace, he will go to heaven.” (The Angelus, “A Talk Heard Round the World,” April, 2006, p. 5.)
Evidently,certain distinctions must be made. Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism,etc.), but not by this religion. There may be souls who, not knowing Our Lord, have by the grace of the good Lord, good interior dispositions,who submit to God...But some of these persons make an act of love which implicitly is equivalent to baptism of desire.("Against the Heresies",p.216)
3.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II. 4.
There are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus-Fr.Mauro Tranquilo
5.
False Premise : We can physically
see , know a Protestant in 2013 saved as such.
Conclusion:
Cases of imperfect communion
with the Church are visible to us so they are known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Without the False Premise: UR 3 refers to a
possibility known only to God. Since it is unknown to us it cannot be an exception to the dogma on exclusive salvation.
False Premise: We can physically see,
know a Jew or Hindu who is 'good and holy' and is saved in 2013.
Conclusion:
Cases of good and holy
non Catholics who are saved or going to be saved, are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Without the False Premise: NA 2 is a
possibility , a hypothetical case. It is irrelevant to the dogma on salvation.
False Premise: Those saved with the
' seeds of the Word' (AG 11 etc) are personally known to us. We can meet them.
Conclusion: Since these cases
are personally known to us , they are visible exceptions to the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.
Without the False Premise: There are no known
exceptions to the traditional teaching on other religions.NA 2 is not one of them.
_______________________________________________
|
Fr.Jean Marie Gleize who made an objective error in ecclesiology protests the beatification
Fr.Jean Marie Gleize who
says there is an exceptional
way of salvation, as if we know
of exceptions in 2013, to the
dogma extra ecclesiam
nulla salus has protested the
beatification of Pope John
Paul II and Pope John XXII.
He is officially supported
by Bishop Bernard Fellay
the Superior General of the
SSPX.
According to the
website of the
SSPX (N.America) (1):
The serious problems with the beatification of
John XXIII and John Paul II, and the difficulties
that result now from their canonization, force us
to question the soundness of the
beatifications and canonizations proclaimed
since Vatican Council II, according to a new
procedure and unheard-of criteria. Le Courrier
de Rome #341 (February 2011) published
a study under the title “Beatification and
Canonization Since Vatican II”, in which Fr.
Jean-Michel Gleize, professor of Ecclesiology
at the Seminary of Econe, points out three
difficulties that show how far our doubts
on the question are from being groundless.
Here is a summary by the author himself.
Fr.Jean Marie Gleize who
says there is an exceptional way of salvation, as if we know of exceptions in 2013, to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has protested the beatification of Pope John Paul II and Pope John XXII. He is officially supported by Bishop Bernard Fellay the Superior General of the SSPX. According to the website of the SSPX (N.America) (1):
The serious problems with the beatification of
John XXIII and John Paul II, and the difficulties that result now from their canonization, force us to question the soundness of the beatifications and canonizations proclaimed since Vatican Council II, according to a new procedure and unheard-of criteria. Le Courrier de Rome #341 (February 2011) published a study under the title “Beatification and Canonization Since Vatican II”, in which Fr. Jean-Michel Gleize, professor of Ecclesiology at the Seminary of Econe, points out three difficulties that show how far our doubts on the question are from being groundless. Here is a summary by the author himself. |
Fr. Gleize's summary
Elementary My Dear Watson!
Elementary My Dear Watson :The supposed explanation that Sherlock Holmes
gave to his assistant, Dr. Watson, when explaining
deductions he had made.
Origin
In fact the line doesn't appear in the Conan
Doyle books, only later in Sherlock Holmes' films.
He does come rather close at a few of points.
Holmes says "Elementary" in 'The Crooked
Man', and "It was very superficial, my dear
Watson, I assure you" in 'The Cardboard
Box'. He also says "Exactly, my dear Watson,
in three different stories.The phrase was
first used by P. G. Wodehouse, in Psmith
Journalist, 1915 (1)
_______________________________________
For something to be an
exception it has to exist.
If something is not there
it is not an exception. This
is elementary.
If there is a crate of
oranges and there is one
apple within, the apple
in the box is an exception.
If it did not exist it
would not be an exception.
Elementary!
Fr. Jean Marie Gleize of the SSPX in his book on Vatican Council II says there is an exceptional way of salvation . This would imply that there are known exceptions to all needing to convert into the Church for salvation. There are no such known cases! He - does not know anyone saved in imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3). So there are no exceptions! Elementary!
Similarly Archbishop
Augustine Di Noia of
Ecclesia Deimade an
elementary mistake.
In an interview with
theNational Catholic
Register he said that
those saved with
'elements of
sanctification and
truth' (LG 8) are
exceptions to the
dogma extra ecclesiam
nulla salus.These cases
do not exist in our reality.
Likewise Archbishop
Gerhard Muller said that
being saved in invincible
ignorance is an exeption to
the dogma extra ecclesiam
nulla salus. So for him all
do not have to convert into
the Church but only
those who know.
Archbishop Muller does not
know who knows and who
does not know and will
be saved. So why
mention it as an exception.
It is a possibility yes, but
not an exception.
Similarly when the SSPX
and SSPX-SO claim
there are known
exceptions in Vatican
Council II to the
traditional teaching
on other religions,
ecumenism and religious
liberty they are making
an elementary error.
There are no such known
cases mentioned in
Vatican Council II.
There are only possibilities.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider and Michael Voris also made a fundamental error when they claimed Vatican Council II is ambigous. Yes it would be ambigous if you asumed we could see the dead saved in invincible ignorance etc.Salvation in Heaven in 2013 is not visible to us on earth.Elementary My Dear Watson.
Invincible ignorance and
the baptism of desire
are not known cases.So
they are not exceptions
to the literal
interpretation of the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus
as interpreted by Tradition
and Fr.Leonard Feeney.
Elementary My Dear Watson.
_____________________________
Elementary My Dear Watson :The supposed explanation that Sherlock Holmes
gave to his assistant, Dr. Watson, when explaining deductions he had made. Origin In fact the line doesn't appear in the Conan Doyle books, only later in Sherlock Holmes' films. He does come rather close at a few of points. Holmes says "Elementary" in 'The Crooked Man', and "It was very superficial, my dear Watson, I assure you" in 'The Cardboard Box'. He also says "Exactly, my dear Watson, in three different stories.The phrase was first used by P. G. Wodehouse, in Psmith Journalist, 1915 (1)
_______________________________________
For something to be an
exception it has to exist. If something is not there it is not an exception. This is elementary.
If there is a crate of
oranges and there is one apple within, the apple in the box is an exception. If it did not exist it would not be an exception. Elementary! Fr. Jean Marie Gleize of the SSPX in his book on Vatican Council II says there is an exceptional way of salvation . This would imply that there are known exceptions to all needing to convert into the Church for salvation. There are no such known cases! He - does not know anyone saved in imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3). So there are no exceptions! Elementary!
Similarly Archbishop
Augustine Di Noia of Ecclesia Deimade an elementary mistake. In an interview with theNational Catholic Register he said that those saved with 'elements of sanctification and truth' (LG 8) are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.These cases do not exist in our reality.
Likewise Archbishop
Gerhard Muller said that being saved in invincible ignorance is an exeption to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So for him all do not have to convert into the Church but only those who know. Archbishop Muller does not know who knows and who does not know and will be saved. So why mention it as an exception. It is a possibility yes, but not an exception.
Similarly when the SSPX
and SSPX-SO claim there are known exceptions in Vatican Council II to the traditional teaching on other religions, ecumenism and religious liberty they are making an elementary error. There are no such known cases mentioned in Vatican Council II. There are only possibilities.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider and Michael Voris also made a fundamental error when they claimed Vatican Council II is ambigous. Yes it would be ambigous if you asumed we could see the dead saved in invincible ignorance etc.Salvation in Heaven in 2013 is not visible to us on earth.Elementary My Dear Watson.
Invincible ignorance and
the baptism of desire are not known cases.So they are not exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as interpreted by Tradition and Fr.Leonard Feeney.
Elementary My Dear Watson.
_____________________________
|
Bishop Bernard Fellay could check the non traditional, irrational errors in SSPX books
Bishop Bernard Fellay has said that the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) will return to the Catholic Church when the Church returns to Tradition.He could help by making the books published or distributed by the SSPX error-free which promotes a non traditional, irrational theory.
Fr.Jean Marie Glieze claims that in Mystici Corporis Pope Pius XII says ' in the exceptional way one can be saved outside the visible limits of the Catholic Church.' (1) Where is it mentioned in Mystici Corporis that in an exceptional way one can be saved outside the visible limits of the Church?.The preface for this book with the error has been written by Bishop Bernard Fellay. This is an objective error made in the Catholic Church at large and is responsible for the rejection of Tradition.
Then there is a doctrinal
error in Cristina Siccardi's,
I'nverno della Chiesa dopo Il
Concilio Vaticano II-i
mutamenti e le cause
(Sugarco Edizioni 2013,Milan,
Italy).I have e-mailed this
message to her but there is no
reply.Her book is being sold
at the SSPX chapel in Rome.
In Chapter 10 :Le
Contraddizioni, le
ambiguità, le omissioni
( p.128) it is said that
the doctrine on
the Church, as
expresed in
Lumen Gentium 8 contradicts
the teachings of Pope
Pius XII in Mystici Corporis and
Humani Generis.
The doctrine on ecumenism
Siccardi says as expressed
in Lumen Gentium 8 and
Unitatis Redintigratio 3 contradicts
the teachings of Pope Pius
IX in Propositions 16 and 17
of the Syllabus of Errors and
those of Leone XIII in Satis
cognituum and Pope Pio XI in
Mortalium animos.
Here are the quotes from
Vatican Council II to which
she refers:
This Church constituted and organized in the
world as a society, subsists in the Catholic
Church, which is governed by the successor
of Peter and by the Bishops in communion
with him, although many elements of
sanctification and of truth are found outside
of its visible structure. These elements, as
gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are
forces impelling toward catholic unity.-Lumen
Gentium 8
For men who believe in Christ and have
been truly baptized are in communion with the
Catholic Church even though this
communion is imperfect.-Unitatis Redintigratio 3
As I have mentioned in a
previous blog post according
to the SSPX priests in Italy,
there are no known
exceptions to the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus
and so if there are no
exceptions to the dogma
on exclusive salvation then
there must also be no
exceptions to the Syllabus
of Errors. The SSPX
priests acknowledge that
a person can be
saved in invincible ignorance
or the baptism of desire as
a possibility but they are not
exeptions.
There are no exceptions
mentioned in Lumen Gentium
8 and Unitatis Redintigratio 3,
above.We do not know any
one saved in 2013 with
'elements of sanctification
and grace' (LG 8). Neither do
we know any one saved
in 'imperfect communion
with the Church'(UR 3).
So Cristiana Siccardi and Fr.J.M Gleize have assumed that the dead now saved with 'elements of sanctification and truth' or in imperfect communion with the Church are exceptions to the dogma on salvation and the Syllabus.
Possibilities are not exceptions.
So LG 8 and UR 3 are not
exceptions to all non Catholics,
Christian and non Christian,
needing to enter the Church
visibly for salvation. Neither
are LG 8 and UR 3 exceptions
to AG 7 and LG 14 which states
allneed to convert into the
Church.Neither Siccardi or
Gleize mentions AG 7 which
is in agreement with the
Syllabus of Errors. So
we have AG 7 in
agreement with the Syllabus
of Errors and there
are no known exceptions
mentioned in Vatican Council
II to AG 7.
This same error is made in a book
published by the Angelus Press
of the SSPX (USA). In Is Feeneyism
Catholic' ,Fr. Francois Laisney,
the SSPX priest assumes that
being saved in invincible
ignorance and the baptism of
desire are known exceptions
to the traditional interpretation of
the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus.
This is a non traditional Catholic
doctrine that the SSPX is
promoting through its books
and it wants the Church to come
back to Tradition.
-Lionel Andrades
1.
'19.Risposta alla terza obiezione: in Mystici
corporis Pio XII dice che in via eccezionale
ci si può salvare al di fuori dei limiti
visibili della Chiessa Cattolica...'-Don J.M
Gleize FSSPX(p.152. Editrice Ichthys.VIII
Il 'Subsistit in'-Status Quaestionis),Vaticano
II-Un Dibattito Aperto Questioni
disputate sul XXI Concilio Ecumenico
__________________________
Bishop Bernard Fellay has said that the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) will return to the Catholic Church when the Church returns to Tradition.He could help by making the books published or distributed by the SSPX error-free which promotes a non traditional, irrational theory.
Fr.Jean Marie Glieze claims that in Mystici Corporis Pope Pius XII says ' in the exceptional way one can be saved outside the visible limits of the Catholic Church.' (1) Where is it mentioned in Mystici Corporis that in an exceptional way one can be saved outside the visible limits of the Church?.The preface for this book with the error has been written by Bishop Bernard Fellay. This is an objective error made in the Catholic Church at large and is responsible for the rejection of Tradition.
Then there is a doctrinal
error in Cristina Siccardi's, I'nverno della Chiesa dopo Il Concilio Vaticano II-i mutamenti e le cause (Sugarco Edizioni 2013,Milan, Italy).I have e-mailed this message to her but there is no reply.Her book is being sold at the SSPX chapel in Rome.
In Chapter 10 :Le
Contraddizioni, le ambiguità, le omissioni ( p.128) it is said that the doctrine on the Church, as expresed in Lumen Gentium 8 contradicts the teachings of Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis and Humani Generis.
The doctrine on ecumenism
Siccardi says as expressed in Lumen Gentium 8 and Unitatis Redintigratio 3 contradicts the teachings of Pope Pius IX in Propositions 16 and 17 of the Syllabus of Errors and those of Leone XIII in Satis cognituum and Pope Pio XI in Mortalium animos.
Here are the quotes from
Vatican Council II to which she refers:
This Church constituted and organized in the
world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.-Lumen Gentium 8
For men who believe in Christ and have
been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect.-Unitatis Redintigratio 3
As I have mentioned in a
previous blog post according to the SSPX priests in Italy, there are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so if there are no exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation then there must also be no exceptions to the Syllabus of Errors. The SSPX priests acknowledge that a person can be saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire as a possibility but they are not exeptions.
There are no exceptions
mentioned in Lumen Gentium 8 and Unitatis Redintigratio 3, above.We do not know any one saved in 2013 with 'elements of sanctification and grace' (LG 8). Neither do we know any one saved in 'imperfect communion with the Church'(UR 3).
So Cristiana Siccardi and Fr.J.M Gleize have assumed that the dead now saved with 'elements of sanctification and truth' or in imperfect communion with the Church are exceptions to the dogma on salvation and the Syllabus.
Possibilities are not exceptions.
So LG 8 and UR 3 are not
exceptions to all non Catholics,
Christian and non Christian,
needing to enter the Church
visibly for salvation. Neither
are LG 8 and UR 3 exceptions
to AG 7 and LG 14 which states
allneed to convert into the
Church.Neither Siccardi or
Gleize mentions AG 7 which
is in agreement with the
Syllabus of Errors. So
we have AG 7 in
agreement with the Syllabus
of Errors and there
are no known exceptions
mentioned in Vatican Council
II to AG 7.
This same error is made in a book
published by the Angelus Press of the SSPX (USA). In Is Feeneyism Catholic' ,Fr. Francois Laisney, the SSPX priest assumes that being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
This is a non traditional Catholic
doctrine that the SSPX is promoting through its books and it wants the Church to come back to Tradition.
-Lionel Andrades
'19.Risposta alla terza obiezione: in Mystici
__________________________corporis Pio XII dice che in via eccezionale ci si può salvare al di fuori dei limiti visibili della Chiessa Cattolica...'-Don J.M Gleize FSSPX(p.152. Editrice Ichthys.VIII Il 'Subsistit in'-Status Quaestionis),Vaticano II-Un Dibattito Aperto Questioni disputate sul XXI Concilio Ecumenico |
Dean of Theology says there are no known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus
SSPX Prior says Fr.Jean Marie
Gleize's use of the phrase
'via eccezionale' will be
clarified by the District
Superior,Italy
Father Aldo Rossi , the SSPX
Prior at Albano, Italy said on
Sunday morning that he would
speak with the SSPX District
Superior in Italy Don Pier Paulo
Petrucci to clarify the phrase
'via eccezionale'(exceptional
way) used by Fr.Jean Marie
Gleize in his book Vaticano II-
Un Dibattito Aperto(Editrice
Ichthys) 2013 which is published
by the SSPX District Italy,
Albano,Rome.It has a preface
written by Bishop Bernard
Fellay and has been approved
by Father Petrucci.
'19.Risposta alla terza obiezione: in Mystici corporis Pio XII dice che in via eccezionale ci si può salvare al di fuori dei limiti visibili della Chiessa Cattolica...'-Don J.M Gleize FSSPX (p.152. Editrice Ichthys.VIII Il 'Subsistit in'-Status Quaestionis),Vaticano II-Un Dibattito Aperto Questioni disputate sul XXI Concilio Ecumenico
The SSPX Prior and myself
agreed that there were no
known exceptions to the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus.This is also the
position of other SSPX
Italian priests with whom
I spoke to in Rome.
For Fr.Jean Marie Gleize
Vatican Council II contradicts
the dogma extra ecclesiam
nulla salus since there are
known exceptions mentioned
in the text of the Council.So
Vatican Council II for him,
is at odds with the traditional
teaching on other religions
and Christian communities
and churches.
I had wanted to speak to
the SSPX District Superior in
Albano and tell him that
there were two fundamental
interpretations of Vatican
Council II, Cushingism and
Feeneyism and that the
SSPX was using the irrational
and heretical Cushingism,
as was Fr.Gleize.
The Council is ambigous if
Cushingism is used and it
is not ambigous on the issue
of other religions and Christian
communities if Feeneyism
is used in the interpretation.
When Archbishop Marcel
Lefebvre mentioned the Hindu
in Tibet who could be saved
in his religion, this case
according to Cushingism,
is known to us in the present
times and so is an exception
to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
It would be the 'via
eccezionale'. According to
Feeneyism this case is not
known to us personally and
so cannot be relevant or
an exception to the traditional
interpretation of the dogma
on exclusive salvation in
the Catholic Church.So there
is no via eccezionale. The
baptism of water is the only
way of salvation for all in
2013. The baptism of water
is given by the Catholic
Church to adults with Catholic
faith.
So when Vatican Council
II refers to a non Catholic who
can be saved in his religion
(NA 2 etc), there are elements
of sanctification and faith in
other religions (LG 8), invincible
ignorance and a good conscience
(LG 16), seeds of the
Word...(AG 11) and imperfect
communion with the Church
(UR), we have possibilities,
hypothetical cases, probabilities,
what is accepted in principle
and in faith but with no known
reality. There is no defacto
case in the present times.For
these cases to be exceptions
they would have to be known
in 2013 . So every one in
2013, with no known exception,
needs Catholic faith and the
baptism of water for salvation
( to go to Heaven and avoid Hell).
There has been no clarification
from Fr.Jean Marie Gleize, or
Econe or the SSPX (USA), to these
blog posts sent to them. The SSPX
(USA) makes the same error in a
book written by Fr.Francois Laisney
and published by the Angelus
Press.Fr.Pier Paulo Petrucci
has given the imprimatur for a few
books in Italian which indicate
that there are known exceptions in
Vatican Council II to Tradition,
there is a via eccezionale.
____________________
'19.Risposta alla terza obiezione: in Mystici corporis Pio XII dice che in via eccezionale ci si può salvare al di fuori dei limiti visibili della Chiessa Cattolica...'-Don J.M Gleize FSSPX (p.152. Editrice Ichthys.VIII Il 'Subsistit in'-Status Quaestionis),Vaticano II-Un Dibattito Aperto Questioni disputate sul XXI Concilio Ecumenico
The SSPX Prior and myself
agreed that there were no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is also the position of other SSPX Italian priests with whom I spoke to in Rome.
For Fr.Jean Marie Gleize
Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since there are known exceptions mentioned in the text of the Council.So Vatican Council II for him, is at odds with the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities and churches.
I had wanted to speak to
the SSPX District Superior in Albano and tell him that there were two fundamental interpretations of Vatican Council II, Cushingism and Feeneyism and that the SSPX was using the irrational and heretical Cushingism, as was Fr.Gleize.
The Council is ambigous if
Cushingism is used and it is not ambigous on the issue of other religions and Christian communities if Feeneyism is used in the interpretation.
When Archbishop Marcel
Lefebvre mentioned the Hindu in Tibet who could be saved in his religion, this case according to Cushingism, is known to us in the present times and so is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It would be the 'via eccezionale'. According to Feeneyism this case is not known to us personally and so cannot be relevant or an exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.So there is no via eccezionale. The baptism of water is the only way of salvation for all in 2013. The baptism of water is given by the Catholic Church to adults with Catholic faith.
So when Vatican Council
II refers to a non Catholic who can be saved in his religion (NA 2 etc), there are elements of sanctification and faith in other religions (LG 8), invincible ignorance and a good conscience (LG 16), seeds of the Word...(AG 11) and imperfect communion with the Church (UR), we have possibilities, hypothetical cases, probabilities, what is accepted in principle and in faith but with no known reality. There is no defacto case in the present times.For these cases to be exceptions they would have to be known in 2013 . So every one in 2013, with no known exception, needs Catholic faith and the baptism of water for salvation ( to go to Heaven and avoid Hell).
There has been no clarification
from Fr.Jean Marie Gleize, or Econe or the SSPX (USA), to these blog posts sent to them. The SSPX (USA) makes the same error in a book written by Fr.Francois Laisney and published by the Angelus Press.Fr.Pier Paulo Petrucci has given the imprimatur for a few books in Italian which indicate that there are known exceptions in Vatican Council II to Tradition, there is a via eccezionale.
____________________
|
Three Questions for Guido Pozzo
MAY 28, 2016
Edward Pentin could ask
Cardinal Muller if Vatican Council
II can be interpreted with
Feeneyism or Cushingism ? - 2
Edward Pentin could ask Cardinal
Muller if Vatican Council II can
be interpreted with Feeneyism or
Cushingism?
I make the distinction between
Cushingism and Feeneyism in the
interpretation of Vatican Council
II and so Edward Pentin could
mention this to Cardinal Gerhard
Muller in his next interview.This
could be a way out in the present
SSPX -Vatican doctrinal issue.
Does Cardinal Muller and the
Congregation for the Doctrine of
the Faith (CDF) consider this
a possibility? For me, Cushingism
says there are known exceptions
to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus (EENS).It says the baptism of
desire and blood, which excludes
the baptism of water, refers to
objective cases, known to human
beings.
Feeneyism says there are no known
exceptions to the dogma EENS ,
there are no objective cases of the
baptism of desire or blood, with or
without the baptism of water.So
humanly speaking there are
no physically visible exceptions to
traditional EENS.
He could tell the CDF Prefect that
the distinction between Cushingism
and Feeneyism is made on the blog
Eucharist and Mission (Lionel's
blog) and the blog owner(L.A)
interprets Vatican Council
II with Feeneyism as a philosophical
reasoning and theology. He rejects
Cushingism.Is he still a Catholic for
the CDF ?
He also rejects the Cushingite reas
oning used in the Letter of the
Holy Office 1949. So he accepts the
first part of the Letter of the Holy
Office 1949 which is Feeneyite and
the rejects the second part of the
Letter(1949) which is Cushingite.
He(Lionel) interprets Vatican Council II
and the first part of the Letter of
the Holy Office 1949 with Feeneyism
i.e hypothetical cases cannot be
objectively seen, to be objective
exceptions to the dogma extra
ecclesiam nulla salus.The first part of
the
Letter(1949) supports Fr.Leonard
Feeney.
He could mention that Lionel is aware
of the passages in Vatican Council II
( LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc)
which are there because of the
Cushingite interpretation of
the Council Fathers.These passages
should not have been placed in
Vatican Council. They are there
because of the error in the 1949
magisterial reasoning in Boston and
Rome.1
For the blog eucharistandmission
hypothetical references can only be
known to God if they exist in
reality.So they are not relevant or
exceptions, to the dogma on
exclusive salvation in the Church.
Cushingites assume that these
hypothetical references are
objective.They assume what
is subjective for us is really
objective.They confuse what
is implicit as being explicit.The
same confusion is there in Pope
Francis' exhortation, Amoris
Laetitia.
So can Cardinal Muller accept a
Feeneyite interpretation of
Vatican Council II , the Catechism
of the Catholic Church and the
Letter of the Holy Office 1949?
The Feeneyite interpretation is
rational and traditional while the
Cushingite interpretation is
irrational, non traditional and
heretical.This can be plainly seen.
Edward Pentin has never spoken
to Cardinal Muller about a
Feeneyite and Cushingite
interpretation of magisterial
documents.Neither has any one
in the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith,over the
last few years commented on
this issue, even though there
are thousands of posts on line
on this topic.
Pentin could say that Lionel
considers himself a Catholic,
who accepts Vatican Council
II and the traditional
interpretation of the dogma
EENS according to the 16th
century missionaries, with
the black and white concept,
there being no known exceptions,
no subjectivism.
Pentin could also ask Bishop B
ernard Fellay or an SSPX theologian
about this distinction. There is
confusion among the SSPX
priests. Since Archbishop Lefebvre
was a Cushingite but the SSPX
General Chapter Statement
2012 is Feeneyite.-Lionel Andrades
Pope Benedict wrongly assumed
Robert Kennedy, Richard Cushing
and the Vatican ( Holy Office'49)
were objectively correct and
Fr.Leonard Feeney made a mistake
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/pope-benedict-assumed-robert-kennedy.html
Edward Pentin could ask
Cardinal Muller if Vatican Council
II can be interpreted with
Feeneyism or Cushingism ? - 2
Cardinal Muller if Vatican Council
II can be interpreted with
Feeneyism or Cushingism ? - 2
Edward Pentin could ask Cardinal
Muller if Vatican Council II can
be interpreted with Feeneyism or
Cushingism?
I make the distinction between
Cushingism and Feeneyism in the
interpretation of Vatican Council
II and so Edward Pentin could
mention this to Cardinal Gerhard
Muller in his next interview.This
could be a way out in the present
SSPX -Vatican doctrinal issue.
Cushingism and Feeneyism in the
interpretation of Vatican Council
II and so Edward Pentin could
mention this to Cardinal Gerhard
Muller in his next interview.This
could be a way out in the present
SSPX -Vatican doctrinal issue.
Does Cardinal Muller and the
Congregation for the Doctrine of
the Faith (CDF) consider this
a possibility? For me, Cushingism
says there are known exceptions
to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus (EENS).It says the baptism of
desire and blood, which excludes
the baptism of water, refers to
objective cases, known to human
beings.
Congregation for the Doctrine of
the Faith (CDF) consider this
a possibility? For me, Cushingism
says there are known exceptions
to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus (EENS).It says the baptism of
desire and blood, which excludes
the baptism of water, refers to
objective cases, known to human
beings.
Feeneyism says there are no known
exceptions to the dogma EENS ,
there are no objective cases of the
baptism of desire or blood, with or
without the baptism of water.So
humanly speaking there are
no physically visible exceptions to
traditional EENS.
exceptions to the dogma EENS ,
there are no objective cases of the
baptism of desire or blood, with or
without the baptism of water.So
humanly speaking there are
no physically visible exceptions to
traditional EENS.
He could tell the CDF Prefect that
the distinction between Cushingism
and Feeneyism is made on the blog
Eucharist and Mission (Lionel's
blog) and the blog owner(L.A)
interprets Vatican Council
II with Feeneyism as a philosophical
reasoning and theology. He rejects
Cushingism.Is he still a Catholic for
the CDF ?
the distinction between Cushingism
and Feeneyism is made on the blog
Eucharist and Mission (Lionel's
blog) and the blog owner(L.A)
interprets Vatican Council
II with Feeneyism as a philosophical
reasoning and theology. He rejects
Cushingism.Is he still a Catholic for
the CDF ?
He also rejects the Cushingite reas
oning used in the Letter of the
Holy Office 1949. So he accepts the
first part of the Letter of the Holy
Office 1949 which is Feeneyite and
the rejects the second part of the
Letter(1949) which is Cushingite.
oning used in the Letter of the
Holy Office 1949. So he accepts the
first part of the Letter of the Holy
Office 1949 which is Feeneyite and
the rejects the second part of the
Letter(1949) which is Cushingite.
He(Lionel) interprets Vatican Council II
and the first part of the Letter of
the Holy Office 1949 with Feeneyism
i.e hypothetical cases cannot be
objectively seen, to be objective
exceptions to the dogma extra
ecclesiam nulla salus.The first part of
the
Letter(1949) supports Fr.Leonard
Feeney.
and the first part of the Letter of
the Holy Office 1949 with Feeneyism
i.e hypothetical cases cannot be
objectively seen, to be objective
exceptions to the dogma extra
ecclesiam nulla salus.The first part of
the
Letter(1949) supports Fr.Leonard
Feeney.
He could mention that Lionel is aware
of the passages in Vatican Council II
( LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc)
which are there because of the
Cushingite interpretation of
the Council Fathers.These passages
should not have been placed in
Vatican Council. They are there
because of the error in the 1949
magisterial reasoning in Boston and
Rome.1
of the passages in Vatican Council II
( LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc)
which are there because of the
Cushingite interpretation of
the Council Fathers.These passages
should not have been placed in
Vatican Council. They are there
because of the error in the 1949
magisterial reasoning in Boston and
Rome.1
For the blog eucharistandmission
hypothetical references can only be
known to God if they exist in
reality.So they are not relevant or
exceptions, to the dogma on
exclusive salvation in the Church.
hypothetical references can only be
known to God if they exist in
reality.So they are not relevant or
exceptions, to the dogma on
exclusive salvation in the Church.
Cushingites assume that these
hypothetical references are
objective.They assume what
is subjective for us is really
objective.They confuse what
is implicit as being explicit.The
same confusion is there in Pope
Francis' exhortation, Amoris
Laetitia.
hypothetical references are
objective.They assume what
is subjective for us is really
objective.They confuse what
is implicit as being explicit.The
same confusion is there in Pope
Francis' exhortation, Amoris
Laetitia.
So can Cardinal Muller accept a
Feeneyite interpretation of
Vatican Council II , the Catechism
of the Catholic Church and the
Letter of the Holy Office 1949?
Feeneyite interpretation of
Vatican Council II , the Catechism
of the Catholic Church and the
Letter of the Holy Office 1949?
The Feeneyite interpretation is
rational and traditional while the
Cushingite interpretation is
irrational, non traditional and
heretical.This can be plainly seen.
rational and traditional while the
Cushingite interpretation is
irrational, non traditional and
heretical.This can be plainly seen.
Edward Pentin has never spoken
to Cardinal Muller about a
Feeneyite and Cushingite
interpretation of magisterial
documents.Neither has any one
in the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith,over the
last few years commented on
this issue, even though there
are thousands of posts on line
on this topic.
to Cardinal Muller about a
Feeneyite and Cushingite
interpretation of magisterial
documents.Neither has any one
in the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith,over the
last few years commented on
this issue, even though there
are thousands of posts on line
on this topic.
Pentin could say that Lionel
considers himself a Catholic,
who accepts Vatican Council
II and the traditional
interpretation of the dogma
EENS according to the 16th
century missionaries, with
the black and white concept,
there being no known exceptions,
no subjectivism.
considers himself a Catholic,
who accepts Vatican Council
II and the traditional
interpretation of the dogma
EENS according to the 16th
century missionaries, with
the black and white concept,
there being no known exceptions,
no subjectivism.
Pentin could also ask Bishop B
ernard Fellay or an SSPX theologian
about this distinction. There is
confusion among the SSPX
priests. Since Archbishop Lefebvre
was a Cushingite but the SSPX
General Chapter Statement
2012 is Feeneyite.-Lionel Andrades
ernard Fellay or an SSPX theologian
about this distinction. There is
confusion among the SSPX
priests. Since Archbishop Lefebvre
was a Cushingite but the SSPX
General Chapter Statement
2012 is Feeneyite.-Lionel Andrades
Pope Benedict wrongly assumed
Robert Kennedy, Richard Cushing
and the Vatican ( Holy Office'49)
were objectively correct and
Fr.Leonard Feeney made a mistake
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/pope-benedict-assumed-robert-kennedy.html
The SSPX could interpret the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus and
Vatican Council II as I do and reject
the second part of the Letter of the
Holy Office 1949 since it is
irrational and non traditional http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/the-sspx-could-interpret-dogma-extra.html
From my perspective it is
Cardinal Muller and the SSPX
who do not accept
Vatican Council II (Feeneyite)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/from-my-perspective-it-is-cardinal.html
I accept the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and
also implicit for us baptism of desire: I affirm the
centuries old dogma and do not deny hypothetical
and invisible for us baptism of desire and blood.:
The Letter made an objective mistake
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/i-accept-dogma-extra-ecclesiam-nulla.html
____________________________________
The SSPX could interpret the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus and
Vatican Council II as I do and reject
the second part of the Letter of the
Holy Office 1949 since it is
irrational and non traditional http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/the-sspx-could-interpret-dogma-extra.html
extra ecclesiam nulla salus and
Vatican Council II as I do and reject
the second part of the Letter of the
Holy Office 1949 since it is
irrational and non traditional http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/the-sspx-could-interpret-dogma-extra.html
From my perspective it is
Cardinal Muller and the SSPX
who do not accept
Vatican Council II (Feeneyite)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/from-my-perspective-it-is-cardinal.html
Cardinal Muller and the SSPX
who do not accept
Vatican Council II (Feeneyite)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/from-my-perspective-it-is-cardinal.html
I accept the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and
also implicit for us baptism of desire: I affirm the
centuries old dogma and do not deny hypothetical
and invisible for us baptism of desire and blood.:
The Letter made an objective mistake
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/i-accept-dogma-extra-ecclesiam-nulla.html
also implicit for us baptism of desire: I affirm the
centuries old dogma and do not deny hypothetical
and invisible for us baptism of desire and blood.:
The Letter made an objective mistake
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/i-accept-dogma-extra-ecclesiam-nulla.html
____________________________________
The Magisterial Heresy
The Magisterial Heresy -1 (Updated June 18, 2016)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/06/the-magisterial-heresy-1-updated-june.html
Magisterial Heresy -2 (Updated June 18, 2016)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/06/magisterial-heresy-2-updated-june-18.html
Magisterial Heresy-3 (Updated June 18, 2016 )
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/06/magisterial-heresy-3-updated-june18-2016.html
The Magisterial Heresy -4 (Updated June 18, 2016)http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/06/the-magisterial-heresy-4-updated-june.html
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/06/the-magisterial-heresy-1-updated-june.html
Magisterial Heresy -2 (Updated June 18, 2016)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/06/magisterial-heresy-2-updated-june-18.html
Magisterial Heresy-3 (Updated June 18, 2016 )
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/06/magisterial-heresy-3-updated-june18-2016.html
The Magisterial Heresy -4 (Updated June 18, 2016)http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/06/the-magisterial-heresy-4-updated-june.html