...interpret this in the light of Feeney/EENS and not Cushing?
CCC#1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.
CCC#1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.
Good question.
It's simple.CCC 1258 does not contradict the dogma EENS ( Feeneyite) It does not contradict EENS as it was known to the magisterium and missionaries in the 16th century.
Since baptism of desire and blood cases with or without the baptism of water are not visible and known in the present times. They are not part of our reality in 2017. They do not exist for us human beings. So they cannot be exceptions to the dogma EENS.
CCC 1258 is accepted as a hypothetical possibility.Speculation with good will but with no connection to the dogma EENS( Feeneyite).-Lionel Andrades
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Good answer.....another question....
have there ever been known to man anyone who was not baptized, and yet died for the sake of the faith? If so, then would these people not be exceptions to EENS?
have there ever been known to man anyone who was not baptized, and yet died for the sake of the faith? If so, then would these people not be exceptions to EENS?
I do not know of any such person.
This person would not be an exception to EENS. Since for there to be an exception in 2017 the person must exist in 2017.Some one from the past cannot be an exception in 2017 to all needing to be members of the Church for salvation.
Tell me how close we are to the canonical recognition of the Society of St. Pius X(SSPX? Raymond Arroyo asks Cardinal Gerhard Muller?(24:56)
He replied ,"that we need a deeper recognition and not only the signing of a document because the doctrine of the Church is very clear.." CUSHING AND FEENEYITE THEOLOGY DETERMINE DOCTRINE
At this point Raymond Arroyo was no where.
Doctrine of the Church is NOT CLEAR.Arroyo is not aware of the difference between Cushingism and Feeneyism as an interpretation of magisterial documents.So he kept silent. He did not discuss this issue.Cardinal Muller was not asked if the SSPX could interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism.He did not ask if Archbishop Guido Pozzo and Archbishop Di Noia could interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism instead of Cushingism. What is the CDF/Ecclesia Dei position on this issue? MULLER ACCEPTS VATICAN COUNCIL INTERPRETED WITH CUSHINGISM
Now Cardinal Muller refers to a Vatican Council II interpreted with the irrational philosophy and theology of Cushingism.But then there are different doctrines. Without Cushingism we return to traditional dogmas and the past ecclesiology.Vatican Council II needs to be interpreted with Feeneyism. The conclusion is different.I am sure this subject was not touched in the new book by Cardinal Muller published by Ignatius Press.He avoids this issue and leaves Catholics in ignorance.Since this is a doctrinal issue with political implications. MULLER INTERPRETS VATICAN COUNCIL II WITH AN IRRATIONAL PREMISE The ecclesiology is traditional with Vatican Council II( Feeneyite) and this may not be politically correct for Cardinal Muller and the two popes.
"What is necessary for the complete, full communion with the Catholic Church..."
He meant that for full communion with the Catholic Church the SSPX and other religious communities have to intepret Vatican Council II with an irrational premise, whose conclusion is a Vatican Council II which is a break with Tradition, with the Syllabus of Errors and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Feeneyite/ 16th century magisterium). THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE CREED HAS BEEN CHANGED AND RE-INTERPRETED BY THE MAGISTERIUM
"Every one who wants to be Catholic has to accept the Catholic Creed..."
He means the SSPX has to accept the Catholic Creed in which it is understood that there are three or more known baptisms which exclude the baptism of water.Again the Creed has to be re-interpreted with Cushingism. MULLER APPLIES CUSHINGISM TO ALL THE COUNCILS
He says that they have to accept " all the Councils",
He infers that all the Councils including Vatican Council II are interpreted by him with Cushingism i.e invisible cases are visible.Raymond Arroyo was still sleeping here. SSPX HAS TO RE-INTERPRET THE SEVEN SACRAMENTS AND BAPTISM
They have to 'accept the seven sacraments' re-interpreted with Cushingism. Invisible baptism of desire is a visible exception to all needing to be members of the Catholic Church without the baptism of water.This is the understanding of the Sacrament of Baptism for Cardinal Cushing and the two popes. Invisible cases have to be approved as exceptions to Jesus' teaching on the necessity of the baptism of water in John 3:5. Since there is salvation outside the Church for Cardinal Muller the seven sacraments are not a necessity for salvation. FOR MULLER THE CATECHISM IS A RUPTURE WITH THE SYLLABUS.THIS IS CUSHINGISM
They have 'to accept other doctrines' said Cardinal Muller.The Catechism of the Catholic Church too has to be interpreted by the SSPX with irrational Cushingism which makes the Catechism a rupture with the Syllabus of Errors on ecumenism etc. HIERARCHY ONLY INTERPRETS VATICAN COUNCIL II WITH THE IRRATIONAL PREMISE: EVERY ONE HAS TO FOLLOW
Cardinal Muller continued.He said that the SSPX " has to accept the hierarchical communion'.Of course, the hierachy only interprets Vatican Council II with invisible cases being visible exceptions to the dogma EENS.So it has to be a rupture with EENS as it was known to the 16th century missionaries. So for the hierarchy, the dogma EENS is no more like it was for the 16th century missionaries.Pope Benedict XVI clarfied this for everyone in March 2016. BISHOPS WILL SUSPEND PRIESTs WHO INTERPRET VATICAN COUNCIL II WITH FEENEYISM
"There is the local bishop, and community of all bishops" the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith mentioned. He knows that these bishops will suspend any priest who chooses to interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism.Priests are not allowed to interpret Vatcian Council II in line with the dogma EENS as it was interpreted over the centuries. Arroyo was naive or ignorant here.The hierarchy will not grant incardination to any SSPX priest who refuses to say invisible cases are visible and so there are no known exceptions to Feeneyite EENS. Any priest, even a non SSPX priest, will be suspended if he said that the magisterium made a mistake in the Fr.Leonard Feeney case, since baptism of desire does not exist in our reality to be an exception to the dogma EENS.The Jewish Left will explode. HERESY APPROVED BY CARD.MULLER CONFIRMED BY POPE BENEDICT XVI All these errors and heresy are being maitained by the bishops and the SSPX priests and bishops.The SSPX and other religious communities must tow the heretical line.This is heresy approved by Cardinal Muller and the two popes.It is official and public.Pope Benedict clarified it in March 2016.
The CDF Prefect who overlooks the heresies of Pope Francis said that the SSPX has to accept the Holy Father and a deeper reconciliation is needed. RECONCILIATION TALKS HAVE ENDED : SIGNING OF A DOCUMENT NOT ENOUGH
He indicated that the talks had failed. There will be no reconciliation this year until the SSPX like the other religious communities comes across as a liberal with Cushingite theology.The Jewish Left will not shift from their position.The liberal rabbis decide.Heresy is now mainstream and they want the SSPX to also come in line.
MULLER LOOKS THE OTHER WAY AT POPE FRANCIS' HERESIES The Holy Father rejects the dogma EENS and calls it triumphalism, he re-interprets traditional Cartholic Mission with Cushingism, he interprets Vatican Council II with the common false premise, conscience replaces objective reality and sin, so sacrilege and mortal sin is the norm with Cardinal Muller looking the other way. MULLER ADMITS THAT PRESENTLY THERE ARE ERRORS RELATED TO DOGMA :DOES NOT SPECIFY EENS AND VATICAN COUNCIL II
"A deeper communion in the heart is needed," he said, "some of them are thinking that we are the right Catholics as we have been since 1962 and the rest is all abuses. This is impossible to say.There are liturgical abuses and a lot of errors in the dogmatic sphere,but we must overcome these errors and abuses and not justify the whole separatism from the Church."
The fundamental issue of intepreting Vatican Council II with Cushingism or Feeneyism, with the hermeneutic of rupture or continuity was left out by Raymond Arroyo.
Edward Pentin a few years spoke about Vatican Council II and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus in an interview of Cardinal Muller and Archbishop Augustine do Noi for the National Catholic Register.Cardinal Muller and Archbishop Di Noia interpreted the Council and EENS with Cushingism. Pentin did not say anything. He seems to have got some warning. Since he refuses to touch the subject again.-Lionel Andrades
On a blog critical of Medugorje I asked if the following links, were examples of bad fruit or innocent ignorance.There was no answer.
Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Still River, MA accept novices who have to repeat the same irrationality as the liberal communities : approved by the bishop of Worcester
SSPX must continue to reject Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents interpreted with the false premise and conclusion ? : Church Militant TV still does not respond http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/sspx-must-continue-to-reject-vatican_25.html
School children in the Archdiocese of Detroit have to use an irrationality to interpret Vatican Council II
The St. Benedict Centers are saying there are known exceptions to the dogma EENS,outside the Church there is known salvation, so they reject Vatican Council II for suggesting this
MICM does not want to change its official position on Vatican Council II : need to break away from Hildebrand, Davis,SSPX http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/06/micm-does-not-want-to-change-its.html
Michael Voris, Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary are unaware that nothing in Vatican Council II can be an exception to EENS
It is a fact of life that we cannot see or know exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It is not just my opinion http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/01/it-is-fact-of-life-that-we-cannot-see_1.html
SEPTEMBER 28, 2015
LG16,LG 14, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc are not exceptions to EENS : Fr.Leonard Feeney's excommunication was a mistake
Bro.Thomas Augustine MICM, Fr.Francois Laisney SSPX, Fr.Joseph Pfeiffer SSPX-SO and sedevacantists Michael and Peter Dimond assume that the baptism of desire is relevant to the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus
Fr.Robert Barron and Michael Voris like most people interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side valueshttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/frrobert-barron-and-michael-voris-like.html
Michael Voris has compromised and wants the SSPX to do the same
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